What Does the Bible Say About the Shape of the Earth? Part 1

in #bible6 years ago


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Moderate Christian apologists have done an astonishingly good job of sweeping under the rug the fact that the OT does indeed describe a flat, disc shaped Earth covered by a solid dome called the firmament.

So much so that when I attended a Christian private school, we were taught that scientists in ancient times were the ones who thought Earth was flat even though the Bible said it's round. (Nevermind that science did not exist then.)

What they mean by "round" is a single verse which says Earth is a circle. But the Hebrew word for circle used in that verse does not mean sphere. There was a different word meaning ball shaped they might've used instead, but they didn't.

Further, the circle is said to have been inscribed upon the face of the deep as though with a compass. There's a medieval painting of Jesus doing this (seen below). It is clear from this context that a flat circle was the intended meaning.


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This is to say nothing of the plentiful verses describing the firmament, with stars physically embedded in it, trap doors opened to let the waters above fall through as rain, and so on.

I was never taught about any of that from other Christians. Probably they were not, themselves, aware of those verses because nobody ever taught them about it either.

So it is that in the comments of any article or video about flat eathers, there's invariably a few moderate Christians laughing at the absurdity of it, then qualifying it with "but the Bible does not say Earth is flat, that's a heresy which originated in the middle ages", another apologist fabrication.

They can point to 2 or 3 Christian scholars from the middle ages who accepted a round Earth and try to extrapolate from that to all Christians being aware of it, and a spherical Earth therefore being the intended meaning of the verses in scripture which describe cosmology.

They have also argued that the translator William Tyndale (responsible for translating the Bible into English) had the opportunity to correct those mistakes, and would have if they actually were mistakes, in order to make the Bible more defensible. (This assumes that Tyndale would've been sufficiently impious to make his own independent edits to the holy book of his own religion, even though scripture emphatically says never to do that.)

All in all, moderate Christians have done an incredible job of making sure almost no Christians anywhere (except flat earth YECs) are even aware that ancient Israelite cosmology did in fact include a flat Earth and was geocentric by repeating lies which they may well believe themselves.


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It's hard to get this information out to the public because anywhere that Christians are in a position to censor it, they do. Even here on Steemit, trying to set the record straight often results in flagging.

This effect is even more pronounced in the mainstream media where flat earthers are lampooned as kooks with a false, heretical view of what the Bible teaches when in fact they're among the few Christians who are aware of and accept Biblical cosmology.

Recently I had the good fortune of meeting a clever, extremely thorough Biblical scholar and polemicist whose primary focus is getting the word out that the Bible absolutely does describe a geocentric, flat Earth cosmology in spite of what moderate Christian apologists commonly claim.

I received his permission to repost his videos here so they can be viewed by a larger audience, and will be sharing them with you little by little as my posting schedule permits. Now, without further delay, part 1: "All the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time"


Stay Tuned for More!

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I like watching when the International Space Station does those livestreams from inside the firmament.

Quite impressive and interesting topic, this very educative and i look forward to more of that, id like to ask you though, are you a Christian?

Wow, so what lead you to focus more on the bible?

As I was raised in the Christian tradition and attended two private Christian schools, I know much more about the Bible than I do about the Book of Mormon or the Qur'an.

Oh ok, i now understand, your knowledge is commendable

Haha I have run into this type of thing too. I find that many people who claim to be one religion or another often have a poor understand of the thing that they say they believe in.

That being said, I have seen some who accept the kind of stuff that you discuss here. I once saw a clip in which a religious person tries to sell the idea that the moon isn't real because the bible says that it is just a light lol. If I can find it again, I will edit a link into this comment.

Others will try to do a bunch of mental gymnastics to make those things fit into reality. There is a bottom of the barrel YouTube preacher who calls himself G Man who once claimed that "there are no starving Christian children in the world." When he was showed the obvious evidence that his claim was untrue, his response was to say "they must not be 'real' Christians then.

Here is the video it is from on old episode of a now partially defunct podcast and it features a somewhat abrasive host but the thing that they cover is gold:

The channel it originates on is is Amazing Athiest but the clip is from a podcast called The Drunken Peasents

Cool beans, thanks for making me aware of it.

Haha no problem man, Weird people are always fun to watch lol.

Regarding this issue, it is meaningful to explore it academically. From a religious perspective, it is meaningless.
关于这个问题,在学术上探究,它是有意义的。从宗教方面讲,它是无意义的。

As I was raised in the Christian tradition and attended two private Christian schools

Kinda Nietzsche stuff.

Don't forget that there was animals biggers than the ocean and the earth themself.

I really enjoy the Biblical stuffs. But earth-flaters are like the comunist people of the cosmology. They only want to belive that what they want is right.

A flat-earth proponent going all the way into the Bible for evidence. It's a surprise to me that you allude to the Bible for support even when you told me that you're not a Christian.

I am not trying to support the notion that the Earth is flat. Of course Earth is not flat. I am showing that the Bible does indeed describe a geocentric, flat Earth cosmology as part of arguing that Christianity is untrue.

I don't think we should see it from a religious point of view. The question is what does science say about this ?

The only thing, I'm going to say here is that, there are a lot of questions to be asked but people say, it is divine, you don't question why this is this, and why that Is that concerning what the Bible says. What is your take on this brother.

I think the Torah (old testament) was written in a time when many did believe the Earth was flat. I think the authors sincerely believed that as well, and that's why scripture describes a flat Earth. The simplest explanation is that they wrote it that way because they didn't know any better. This explanation is only objectionable to people who assume the authors of scripture were divinely informed and thus could not be wrong.

Uhm, well said brother, thanks for the enlightenment.

I appreciate the honesty here, if someone says they are Christian, they must conform to the word, rather than making the word conform to themselves. It's tempting to believe government authorities over ancient wisdom, but sometimes we have to choose which is more important. @ironshield

Or conclude that the Bible is wrong and Christianity is untrue.

They could, but it would be irresponsible to do this without researching first. The truth is really stranger than fiction. @ironshield

Why do you assume they would've neglected to do the research? It is the other way around in my opinion. People who do the research discover Christianity is false and leave it. The ones who continue to believe have neglected to investigate the basis for their beliefs from any sources besides Christian apologetics ministries.

I find it requires more faith to deny the authenticity of Christianity then to not.

The reasons Christians deny flat earth is that they are afraid that it will prove the bible wrong. So they conform the bible to match their biases and make it more 'palatable' for the general public.

What I respect from your article is the honesty in saying that in ancient times, the bible authors believed in flat earth. So much so, that it was simply a given. From an ancient point of view, a globe earth is more ridiculous than flat earth is today. It would not be sufficient to say "gravity" when they ask how lands far away could be upside-down beneath them. @ironshield

I find it requires more faith to deny the authenticity of Christianity then to not.

This is also how Muslims feel about Islam, and how Mormons feel about Mormonism. I am sure you have very sophisticated apologetics, but so do they.

However, supposing there was a group of people traveling about your area, led by a charismatic speaker who claims that the world is ending soon. He promises he alone can save you, but only if you sell your belongings, devote the rest of your life to him, and cut off family members who try to stop you.

He also wants to change your name, advises you to leave your home/job if necessary to follow him, and says that if you don’t love him more than your own family, you’re not worthy of him. What sort of group is that?

We're coming at this from opposite directions. I was raised agnostic/spiritual/newage but am now following that charismatic speaker because I believe His words and deeds are true.

From what I gather, you were raised Christian but believe you have been enlightened and would rather avoid what you now consider is a foolish/dangerous cult.

@ironshield

I don't think I am "enlightened". It does not require unusual intelligence to recognize a bog standard end of the world cult, any more than it does to recognize that the Nigerian prince emailing lucrative offers to Americans probably isn't legit.

Do you agree that Mormonism and Islam began as I described? If so, what makes Christianity different?

Actually, it's just the opposite. There are many testimonies from people who investigated it and found it to be true. I don't know of anyone who did the opposite.

Josh McDowell talks about this in his book, "Evidence That Demands A Verdict".

"I don't know of anyone who did the opposite."

Probably because you avoid those people and only fraternize with other Christians. Here's twenty two thousand ex-christians for you to talk to: https://www.reddit.com/r/exchristian

There's also a sub for people who left atheism: https://www.reddit.com/r/exatheist/

...but it has a whopping 748 members. How come the number of ex-christians alone (not counting ex-mormons, ex-jehova's witnesses, ex-catholics, which all have their own subs) so greatly dwarfs the number of ex-atheists?

"Josh McDowell talks about this in his book, "Evidence That Demands A Verdict"."

I googled this, and it looks like Josh Dowell is another christian apologist. I am beginning to get the impression that you believe what you do because christian apologetics books are the only material you've read on the subject of whether Christianity is credible.

Will a Mormon who only reads Mormon apologetics books get an accurate impression of Mormonism's credibility?

https://bibleevidences.com/science/

Though the Bible is not a science book, when it touches on scientific matters it is either completely accurate or non-contradictory, and often demonstrates remarkable fore-knowledge. There are many scientific facts mentioned in the Bible that were not understood by man until centuries after the Bible was written. Following are a few examples of the overwhelming scientific evidence for the Bible:

The Earth and Space
God-CreationThe earth’s shape is perhaps the most important to deal with first since many critics claim that the Bible portrays the earth as flat. This couldn’t be farther from the truth and in my opinion is one of the most vaporous arguments used by skeptics against the Bible. There is not a single passage that plainly states that the earth is flat1. The groundswell of this criticism gets its roots from the inaccurate but common belief among many that the ancients on up through the middle ages believed that the earth was flat. The truth is, virtually all learned people have known for the last 2500 years that the earth is spherical [please see footnote 2].
Before the learned ancients surmised that the earth was spherical, the divinely inspired Isaiah wrote “It is He who sits above the circle of the earth…(Isaiah 40:22)”. In addition, from the Book of Job we have “He stretches out the north over empty space; he hangs the earth on nothing (Job 26:7)”. It should be noted that just last century scientists believed space consisted of a hypothetical substance called Ether (not the chemical), which was the medium between the celestial bodies. Also, the pagans of that time believed in such things as a mythical Atlas character who supported the pillars that held heaven and earth apart, and later carried the earth around on his shoulders. Another interesting tidbit that illuminates the divine nature of Job 26:7 is the recent discovery of a huge hole in space in the direction of the northern hemisphere3.

I've dedicated this article to answering your arguments.

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