Brexit (not for domestic consumption)

in #brexit5 years ago

ignorance-582607_960_720.jpg

Maybe I just want to rant... but that would be therapy for me, but boring for you. So I will try and be a little informative, maybe even entertaining...

The beginning

All good stories should have a beginning. Our Brexit story has a few different starting points, maybe it was when the European Union announced it's anti tax-avoidance directive, maybe it was the moment, our former Prime Minister, David Cameron decided he would try and defeat the dark forces that still linger in the ageing, old and out of touch Conservative Party.

Wherever you want to draw the start line, the desire to leave the European Union has lingered in British politics for a long time.

Why?

For those that don't know what Brexit means, don't worry. Most people don't know what it means, including those that went around promoting it.

The slogans were all hyperbole with no specifics.

If we had to define Brexit, most would accept it involves the UK & Northern Ireland leaving the European Union.

The "Why" is a far more difficult question. After almost 3 years of Brexit discussion, no one has any real reason why they want to leave the EU. When we listen to Brexiters (as these people are now called), they will spew slogans they have learnt but fall at the first hurdle when challenged. Let me expand on this:

Q: Why do you want to leave the EU
A: We don't want un-elected bureaucrats telling us what to do...
Q: What EU law would you like to change?
A: ... [they never answer this]

How did we end up here??

David Cameron who was expecting to either lose the 2015 election, or probably end up in another coalition decided to promise something he gambled he would never have to deliver - Brexit!

This was so popular that it got the Conservative Party elected to power and they duly held a referendum. The majority expected Brexit to be rejected, many voted for Brexit as a protest vote. So when the public finally asked David Cameron to deliver Brexit, he decided to resign and leave everyone else to sort out his mess.

Why are you talking about this today?

With just over two weeks to go before we leave the EU, there is no plan, there is no agreement, there are no real preparations. Today, the governments preferred deal was voted down again.

It's sad watching the country you live in slowly tear itself apart.

What are your thoughts on Brexit? I haven't really heard many people talk about it here, but probably because there aren't many UK based steemians around.

@kabir88

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I've been watching the debates a few hours tonight, because even as a non-UK citizen I'm very very interested. Of course 'the deal' got downvoted (lol) again, because nothing really changed and honestly: no-one REALLY knows what they want. One PM said it best: we can both decide to leave this room tonight and still go in two very different directions. That's what Brexit is: even those that want to leave might see very different directions for what should happen 'after leaving'.

Anyway, I've heard many many arguments for and against - and I've had the pleasure of attending the London Steem meet-up two weeks ago where I found some more input. Everyone is divided :-)

From my point of view: leaving the UK will simply limit so so many opportunities for safe, healthy and economical opportunities, and the worst victims are as always for those who can't vote yet, the young people who feel the world is borderless thanks to growing up with social media more than we ever did. They won't understand why they're living in such an isolated country.

But we'll see. I've learned nothing is ever black and white, and although I understand 'some' of the reasons to want to leave, I believe staying is the better of 'two evils' if you can call it that.

If the UK were to leave the EU (the UK cant leave its self). They would stop giving 80ish billion pounds over to an oligarchy imposing economic restraint. They would have sovereignty to ensure they dont receive another raw deal. They would have the freedom to debate climate science because science cant settle. Science means incorporating new evidence as it is obtained. False data is still just a lie no matter how many times it is repeated.

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"If the UK were to leave the EU (the UK cant leave its self)."

The UK can leave anytime it wants. It's given due notice and is about to leave. The problem is, there doesn't seem to be any onward journey booked and Britain is stuck, it's stormed out of the house but forgotten rent is still due and now there is no where else as appealing to go.

"oligarchy imposing economic restraint."

I like creative writing, but even this is a stretch. Who are the members of this EU oligarchy? I don't remember any of them buying football clubs, major newspapers or managing off shore investment funds. Please provide names

"They would have sovereignty to ensure they dont receive another raw deal."

What do you mean by sovereignty? If a nation loses sovereignty by being part of an inter-govermental organisation, why is the WTO acceptable but the EU not? To have true sovereignty, we should also leave any international body?

"debate climate science because science cant settle."

According to who? I've heard about those who do not believe in global warming, but never actually got to debate in detail with anyone so inclined.

You miss understood my first statement as a play on your typo.

The scientific method is trying a hypothesis and accepting the result. Apparently you don't read much news. Why dont we start here with fake climate science. Mike Adams (climate.news) or with Dane Wigington (geoengineeringwatch).

How can we have a debate over false data? Nasa, Ice Gaining, or IPCC. Oh maybe you cant read Zerohedge because Fakebook banned them except Fakebook just said it was a mistake.

True that no one should hand over their control of trade. So called free trade is rarely fair. Look at the American manufacturing industry that was quickly sold to another country in just a few decades. Brexit Simplified

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So I followed some of the links you sent. Found this gem

"Radical environmentalists like Al Gore believe that if they continue to spread propaganda about the planet’s imminent doom as a result of carbon dioxide being sent up into the atmosphere, then people will begin to buy into the hysteria."

At which point I realised this person has no clue what science is.

As for scientific method, here you go

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

Calling anything you don't like "fake" is not the way to conduct debate.

Any serious climate scientists will confirm climate change is real, there is no need to seek zerohedge, we can do directly to those with the most knowledge and experience in the field.

Finally, your play on words was wasted on me. My apologies, I was so worked up with all the Brexit non-sense that is going on right now in the UK.

Have a great day and thanks for taking the time to comment :)

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Everyone has their bias. While I agree that @naturalnews uses inflaming language vindictiveness is expected when personhood is targeted. Mike has built multiple mass spectrometers and is one of the few labs in the world able to test for "safe" glyophosphates.

If CO2 is so damaging why is it more targeted than methane? Why dont the charts even display water vapor as a green house gas? From your wonderful source, "It involves careful observation, applying rigorous skepticism about what is observed, given that cognitive assumptions can distort how one interprets the observation. " So you prefer Lier to faker? You call your references serious is that any different? Censorship of one's opposition only proves their point. You simply overlook facts that nearly anyone is corrupt able.

I am realistic enough to know that I live in the evil empire, are you? RepublicBroadcastingNetwork

Your hubris is showing. Try searching on YouTube Europa: The last battle.

I hope my comment at least planted the seeds.

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I was really upto date on everything "Brexit" for about a year after the referendum. But after a while, I just decided to tune out, I realised there's a mass of people who enjoy hearing lies and others who love to tell them. It's almost like they deserve each other. My only concern is the other half of the country that will get caught in this mess, already the economy is looking very shaky.

I have recently started to follow the whole Brexit Saga more closely as it reaches its fevered climax.

I've already seen some of the great Brexit cheerleader start to distance themselves from the project and others deciding to sink with the ship, hoping their belief in Britannia will keep her afloat.

I haven't really heard many people talk about it here, but probably because there aren't many UK based steemians around.

There are a number of them around.

Pretty sure you don't see them talking about it because it causes drama on the flag front.

Really? Do some opinions about it get flagged?

I've seen it happen in other topics, so who's to say it wouldn't happen when people actually want to discuss things?

because it causes drama on the flag front.

This sounded like you had observed it, that's why I asked :D

I am open to mature discussions about any topic where people start from a position of respect and their views are founded in reality.

I tend to avoid "debate" where it's more about people wanting to spew what they have in their minds with no real intention to listen to the otherside or try and understand their views.

When it comes to Brexit, I have been trying to understand the people who support it without much luck. I still can't understand how Brexit would be even remotely beneficially to the vast majority. For a few super rich people, it's going to be great.

Also NI voted to stay in the union but are being dragged out with it anyway but that goes into a whole different discussion to do with borders and countries.

As for Brexit is has gone beyond a farce at this stage. There is no plan, no execution and a total mess as it stands. Beyond what the news talks about there will be so many extra complications down the line as people realize how many different areas this will effect going forward. GB is tied to the EU in so many ways now that it is going to hit everything.

It's such a strange world view to hold, it puzzles me. Other countries are following the EU model, just look at ASEAN, Mercosur and other regional trading blocks.

I've often wondered if the stupidity was just for show, but they had some other thought out plan up their sleeves, looks like they were just voting for unicorns.

As for the impact on the UK, the great irony is that most Brexit voting areas would get hit hardest by Brexit. London which is mostly remain would have the least impact.

Then we have that whole can of worms with the Northern Ireland border that could breach the Good Friday Agreement. This same agreement which brought peace to this country, is now to be sacrificed at the alter of Brexit.

I hope the UK does pull its self apart. Maybe then all of the thought criminals would be free and the US could stop trying to control the world to benefit is ra hell. Send our regards to Christopher Steele there is still no collusion. The gas attacks in Syria were created by chlorine gas and rubble from demolitions. Why did the Russian double agents have fentanyl in their toxicology reports?

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Which thought criminals?

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Pick one that posted to social media or said anything about someone else and was subsequently arrested for so called free speech.

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I can't think of anyone that matches those facts.

If you're thinking of people going to prison for hate speech, then you've confused two different topics

There is no such thing as hatespeech or hate crime. There is speech and crime. Just because you disagree with something doesn't make it hateful. I'm sure you will tell me that there is no gender and that infanticide is a woman's right to choose. Just because people want to stay in their groups does not make them hateful to others. Security is an individual responsibility. I guess you never heard of Tommy Robinson. While I believe him to be a zioshill he will be running for your parliament soon. Maybe then you will learn who he is. England claims to be the freest country in the world while exporting star chambers to their colonies. Those who believe they are free are the easiest to enslave.

Bulshaviks have divided so they can conquere. They will not stop until people stand up and understand it is ok to be different and it is ok go be white. Until the destruction is complete people will refuse to listen just like Teressa May is doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result. The debt is so high that major war is inevitable. My country is arrogant. The US conquered Europe with inexpensive arms. Today the military industrial complex spends trillions on failed programs just to drain the cow that feeds them. Funny how far the power can kick the can down the road.

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There is no such thing as hatespeech or hate crime. There is speech and crime. Just because you disagree with something doesn't make it hateful. I'm sure you will tell me that there is no gender and that infanticide is a woman's right to choose. Just because people want to stay in their groups does not make them hateful to others. Security is an individual responsibility. I guess you never heard of Tommy Robinson. While I believe him to be a zioshill he will be running for your parliament soon. Maybe then you will learn who he is. England claims to be the freest country in the world while exporting star chambers to their colonies. Those who believe they are free are the easiest to enslave.

Bulshaviks have divided so they can conquere. They will not stop until people stand up and understand it is ok to be different and it is ok go be white. Until the destruction is complete people will refuse to listen just like Teressa May is doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result. The debt is so high that major war is inevitable. My country is arrogant. The US conquered Europe with inexpensive arms. Today the military industrial complex spends trillions on failed programs just to drain the cow that feeds them. Funny how far the power can kick the can down the road.

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I have found the whole concept fascinating as it demonstrates how governments enact laws they truly don’t understand; not talking about Brexit but the concept of the EU itself. Having a conglomeration like this for monetary and trade purposes and bot fiscal, has really never made sense and only led them down this path.

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If you consider where Europe was all those decades ago and what has been achieved by collaborative working, I think the EU has been a success by most measures.

No solution is ever perfect and there is still room for improvement.

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Brexit! Messy. Anything that is politically inclined, is never straight forward. There are always at least two opposing camps and views, if not more.
I think nobody expected it to be this messy. But as with everything else in life, something will be worked out eventually and life will go on - for better or for worst.

Upsetting the status quo, changing the balance of power -- that was the reason Brexit was supported by various groups and powerful individuals, though with varying outcomes in mind perhaps. And some of them succeeded and profited from the ensuing chaos alone, others found that their lives are going to be disrupted along with those who supported the old system.

Before Brexit, I couldn't have imagined how deeply divided the country was in its views and needs.

Personally I don't think it will happen they will find a way! Just wish they would hurry up I am fed up hearing about it to be honest. This has been a big game of divide and conquer and the British public has fallen for it hook line and sinker. It's and exercise to find a reason to the police state and collapse the economy. If they wanted to sort a deal out they could have done easily it suppose to be their job; either their completely incompetent (ok maybe) or no intention 💯🐒

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