QOTW: Why do you think there is so much hate and anger toward Vegans, and why are those who eat meat and dairy so threatened by the notion of giving it up?

in #ecotrain5 years ago

Happy Cow

Why is there so much hate against Jehovah Witnesses?

It is because they come to your door, get in your face, and challenge your beliefs with an air of superiority.

Why is there so much hate against Vegans?

It is because they come to your place, get in your face, and challenge your beliefs with an air of superiority.
Vegans also have a very flawed view of the world and life.
And worse, they have a very flawed view of dietary needs.

Now, those last two sentences will make most Vegans see red.

Veganism isn't so much a diet as it is a cult.
It is a radicallized splinter group that broke off from the Vegetarian religion.

When discussing diet and nutrition, it should be paramount to find out what works best for that person. There should be no blame, no shame, no attacks. There should be muscle testing or blood tests (or etc.) to find the best combination of foods for that individual.

But, Vegans rarely start with nutrition.
They start with an attack of why aren't you Vegan?
And then look down their noses at you.

It is as though Veganism has no concern about you or your nutrition and health.
I rarely hear Vegans talk about getting a balanced diet from their limited food group.
Maybe they aren't even concerned about nutrition?

So, if they are not concerned about nutrition, than that leaves a diet only based on moral beliefs.

And when a Vegan gets up in someone's face, proselytizing Veganism, then they are attacking your beliefs. Just like a Jehovah Witnesses, but without any of the pretend niceness.

At restaurants Vegans demand special consideration from people who don't know what they are talking about. And, after a while of having their beliefs challenged, don't care about what they are talking about. It just becomes an annoyance you have to deal with as a waiter.

To people in general, Vegans are just really annoying members of a cult, that looks down on all those who are not indoctrinated like they are.

If you were looked down upon and bullied for something that was well within what was considered normal, would you get annoyed? Would you get angry? This is what Vegans look like to those not in the cult.

- - - - - - -

Now, for the part i hate. The second part of the question of the week was written by a Vegan and so they probably do not realize how angry it makes people. Or, in specific, the question is an attack, not a question.

"and why are those who eat meat and dairy so threatened by the notion of giving it up?"

Well, have you ever tried to help someone change their diet because they were an obese blimp? You know they have a dietary issue, they know they have a dietary issue, but how hard is it to get them to give up cookies? Eating less cookies is often a bridge too far.

And this is a dietary change where the person says they want to change!

You are what you eat. Or in other words, you eat what you are.

If you want to change your person, you need to change who you are at the core of your being, and then slowly change your diet to be the person you desire to be.

If you are an obese blimp, you first have to challenge yourself. What are the reasons deep within that shape your outer self? Usually they have things like low self esteem. Low self love. Needing protections for your weak emotions (yes, fat is an insulator for your emotions).

And so, to change your diet, you need to work on self love and handling the emotions of your daily life. Then you can begin to change what you eat. In fact, you will start to change what you eat almost automatically.

So, given this, what are Vegans asking for?

"Hey you, you should change who you are because i am upset that they are killing animals, and you should be upset to"

Next, people tend to like what they eat. Here in the developed world, we have all kinds of choices of things to eat. Most people eat what they want to eat. What tastes good to them. That is a combination of what they grew up eating, and their current tastes.

So, telling someone to become Vegan is to tell someone stop eating what they like, because muh beliefs.

Pretty flimsy argument for such a huge change.

The Vegan question above is ludicrous.
Making light of something that is world changing, dismissing someone's preferences as immaterial and then putting that person down for not getting with the cult.

- - - - - - -

Maybe the question should be pushed back to Vegans:

If life is so important, why aren't you a Breatharian?

If life is so important, why don't you only eat manna from heaven?

I mean, both of these are well within your ability. Why aren't you working on them?

And, any real Vegan should have a greenhouse where they grow all of their own food.
This is not an admonition, this is a warning for the coming ice-age. Get to it or you will be forced to stop being a Vegan.

I have nothing against Vegans (do what thou will), however it has been my experience that Vegans want to see me die.
So, i, as many others, see Vegans with a lot of deserved anger.

- - - - - - -

All images in this post are my own original creations.

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ill have to read this whole post tomorrow.. but for now ill just respond to the point you make:
"It is because they come to your place, get in your face, and challenge your beliefs with an air of superiority."

it is not right to compare religious beliefs to cold hard facts! It is not a belief that animals live in a perpetual nightmare.. caged in tiny spaces, living in muck, never seeing the light of day.. fed total shit, injected with hormones and drugs to puff them up.. what the fuck... it is torture.. it is totally cruel.. and THAT IS A FACT!

more tomorrow my friend!

Carnism is just a more popular religion than veganism, the meat industry has better promotion, marketing and PR, and it features daily blood sacrifices as a bonus. The meat religion can afford to pay their priests ('scientists') more, but both religions are nearly completely based on belief for most humans, those beings who still insist on eating something every day.

Preach it brother!

The food pyramid (taught in 'merica) was bought and paid for by BigAg.

And the more i learn about nutrition, the more i learn that what i knew earlier in life was completely wrong. I wonder if this trend will continue? When i am 90, will i look back and think of how shtupid i was back now?

Yes, when it becomes about the person and their ego, then any belief is an extension of that 'extended' self.

Some of those who go under the label 'vegan' for political, activist, cultish reasons and then proselytise make it about them ie their desire to convince etc etc. There are also those who are knowledgeable and able to express their POV on the 'issues' that made then turn away from meat and dairy without the holier-than-thou judgemental approach, which, as you say, just gets up people's noses.....:


But then, to some extent, it's not really about us, it's about the animals and the conditions under which they are kept and live, what they go through. Where it's made about 'us' is when the convenience factor overrides the actual state of what is going on and the information is shut out in order to maintain the convenience, such as the notion that animals do not feel pain etc etc.

It is absolutely a choice, an individual decision, what to put in one's body .....it can be done in an informed manner without getting bogged down in stereotypes - times are changing constantly. If an idea of itself has merit, it can run....but heavy labels can obscure the issue at hand. One can check out what is going on over and above the loaded labels of this and that. Many claim to have already done that, but is it really the case? It's not a group thought, it's the individual's perception of action as being in alignment with one's own integrity (or not). Anyway, just putting it out there for anyone:

I wish that, when a Vegan tries to convert me to Veganism, that i could say, i grow my own free range, organic chickens," and then they would leave me alone.

But, it has never been the case.

I wish that when a Vegan tries to convert me to Veganism, that i could say, "i FEEL that vegetables and animals both have feelings, and thus i do not accept the 'not animals' line," and then they would leave me alone.

But they don't.

And so, to the QOTW, i wrote an answer to "why so much hate and anger towards vegans".

In the future there will be more knowledge about diet. (I mean, sheesh, we just learned about gut biome). However, we are also on the edge of an ice age, and a lot of economic upset... so, we are going to be facing a time when you eat whatever you can.

In the further future, people will mostly eat vegetables grown in their own greenhouse... that is basically their home.

I'm pretty much in agreement with you!

I have no answer to the statement - ok fruit may fall off the tree, but vegetables etc are killed. I would need to eat a fruit only diet - and many do - in order to be in complete alignment with the most extreme position of principled living....this I do not do.

I have nothing to say to someone who has their own local setup and treats the animals well when alive and slaughters them with respect for food and not profit.

But there is suffering, unnecessary and brutal. Not just animals of course, but the fact of humans suffering doesn't justify the suffering of 'lesser beings' - the same thinking amongst humans leads to the ghettoisation of certain sections of society. The two issues are not disconnected. We can see where we add to suffering and take steps to avoid doing so, thereby simultaneously also easing some of our own. Such is my holistic view on this anyway, it is not a question of convincing another, just seeing what's what for oneself (I don't mean you in particular, just in general :).

people will mostly eat vegetables grown in their own greenhouse... that is basically their home.

agree and support that vision, in which I'd include livestock for those who wish it and are able to slaughter locally/themselves, free-range eggs etc....

It's the violence done to self and others through the twisted paradigm of mass factory farms, profit etc. It is done to animals, it is done to humans. Why do it at all and, if we are able to mitigate, why not? It's also possible that we feel disempowered, as if it won't make a difference. Perhaps, but this could also be the 'ego' making the issue about itself and finding excuses.

I've been through all these mental processes and emotional positionings on other issues, I really am not carrying the energy of judgement in this comment. I don't speak for anyone except myself (yeah, and the animals lol).

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Hey there you may well open a can of worms here, pun intended.

Controversial topic of course. "Do no harm" is an ideal philosophy and way of life, it seems to be the highest ideal. Still survival is required and so the middle way is recommended in this day and age. Do as little harm as possible to keep healthy.

As a vegetarian for 30 years, and having been to India, I've seen how we don't need to harm warm-blooded creatures to keep fit. Veganism is a high standard and not to be looked down upon but to be respected. It may just be the attitude of the evangelical vegan type that pushes our ego buttons a bit... it makes us feel as if we are bad or underachieving.

Thanks for a good blog post. With the coming grand solar minimum and mini ice age we may be forced to reconsider our lifestyles. Meat eating is a dying fad, pun intended, and will be a thing of the past done by a small minority in years to come. The nutritional effects of meat eating will become known to more of the mainstream and so they will eat less of it to be healthy. Also the greenhouse gasses from cow farming need to be reduced apparently, as well as the deforestation. Grow your own, of everything will be necessary in time to come.

Unless you have a special medical condition, it is unlikely anyone needs to eat meat to be healthy, according to some medical experts.

The main points though against meat eating are compassion first, health second, environment third in my opinion. Veganism is a further improvement on vegetarianism for these three reasons, just off the top of my head.

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Haha, you ask for trouble. But I agree with you. I never worried about what other people were eating, haven't meet any cannibals yet though.

Well, the people running this QOTD have prevaricated around the bush much on this topic. So, this time i gave my full reply.

And yes, they have already replied as expected.

So, yes, i have stuck my foot in it.
Thanks for reading.

Great post!

I must admit that despite being a WAPF chapter and running a business selling fish oils and geletins, I just don't get into veganism on Steemit - you really have to brace yourself for a wall of angry bullshit!

This opinion peace comes across as severely ignorant, judgemental and unresearched.

Vegans don't care about nutrition? Every Vegan I know can tell you where their nutrients are coming from, what you can eat to get a comparable or superior amount of vitamins and minerals and which supplements are needed to maintain lifestyles.

The leading cause of death in Americans is heart disease. One major contributor to Heart Disease is cholesterol. Guess what does not exist on a Vegan diet? The only place to get it is animal products.

Have Gout? Your doctor will reccomend cutting out meat.

Do you actually care about nutrition, or is this post a butthurt rant?

I care very much about nutrition.

When i bring up nutrition as my reason for not being Vegan, my concerns are swept aside. So, what am i supposed to believe?

Shouldn't i be able to say, i can not be a Vegan because of my dietary needs, and the Vegan should then stop pounding on me?

Even after i tell them all of my dietary restrictions, and run their knowledge out to exhaustion, and still there isn't a Vegan diet that will keep me alive, they still continue to tell me that i have to be a Vegan.

So, literally, vegans have told me to go die. And continue to do so.
Should i be butt hurt?


Cholesterol is not the one dimensional problem that it is currently made out to be. And Vegans have their share of health diseases.

Gout is a problem on not eating enough fat with that meat.

ok here is my take on this whole issue.
When we do something that causes no harm to others such as smoking in our private spaces, eating ramen and pizza all day etc, then i think people should be free to do whatever they wish.

If on the other hand people actions harm others then it is different.. I dont think its OK to say that just because it is annoying for you that people shouldnt stand up for those who cannot defend themselves. When our choices do harm to others then I think we have a moral obligation to stand up and say something, do something about it.. Eating meat, especially cheap mass produced meat causes incredible harm to the animals involved and as such I think people are totally justified to make their point and challenge you.. Sorry if you find that annoying but i can assure you its far less annoying then what most animals have to live by..

As for nutrition.. i dont see any truth in what you are saying. Sure there are SOME people who are in a minority who need to eat meat due to food sensitivity or whatever.. but by in large most people can eat a pure vegan diet and be just as healthy if not more healthy than meat eating folk... There is no debate to be had on this because of the number of people who do eat a vegan diet and are VERY healthy and strong.. Sure it takes some effort to learn how to eat properly, and that education is happening, step by step.. so i just dont buy it!

with all that said, i am surprised to hear of the number of people who say that vegans are SO aggressive, and as you say, want to see you die.. That is not something that i have seen, and I would imagine is a very small percentage of people.. but perhaps their voices are heard over and above those who keep quiet and get on with their lives.. I dont think an aggressive stance is OK, and that doesn't help the cause.. i can see that.. people who are against eating meat should make their case in a productive and respectful way..

and finally, just because something is considered normal, is no justification for it.. as im SURE you can appreciate.. most of what is considered normal these days is abhorrent, totally unacceptable..

It is not that they tell me to die, it is that their rhetoric leaves only that option. And, even after they have exhausted their knowledge, and know that i cannot survive on any vegetarian diet, they still insist on me becoming vegetarian/vegan.

Your logic about animal deaths is inescapable.
However, i do not agree with any of your assumptions.

All life is precious. Even that Brussel's Sprout you are eating there.
I do not draw the line at animals. Yes, you believe there is a difference between animal and vegetable. And thus, for you, you are making the correct choice to reduce suffering.

To me, i understand the circle of life. I understand the level of which this world is built on the corpses of all that have come before. I thank them for giving their lives so that this world can live.

Yes, factory farm techniques of raising animals is cruel.
But, the monoculture factory farm techniques of raising vegetables is just as cruel, and actually kills more beings.


This is important to all vegetarians / vegans

The monoculture BigAg is about to collapse. Due to soil destruction, chemtrails and the coming ice age, giant farms are about to stop producing.

This is the future.

So, if you want to continue eating vegetables, you are going to need to be growing themselves in your own greenhouse.


What is fascinating to me is that you have never once asked how to become a Breatharian or to create manna.

I know a few beatharians. Its an option for a few who can breathe prana but its not for everyone.. i could probably go down that route but am not drawn to it right now..

I admire ur respect for all life, but as i say plants dont suffer, they are part of the one consciousness that is beyond ego and suffering.. so for me there is a huge difference..

If were being idealistic them we should all be fruitarians as fruit is about the only thing that nature intended us to eat.. but I think harvesting vegetables is really fine also and most of them were also intended to be eaten.. anything derived from a flower is ok to eat in my books.

Yes monoculture is not good, that is a different debate but really doesnt mean animal cruelty is any less imprtant to look at..

If u need to eat meat then u can ignore the few fanstics that u have met. My posts are not aimed at the very few with special needs but at the majority of people who dont have food sensitivities.. mind u probably half the people who do have allergies would do well to improve their diet to whole food and reduced meat intake..

Anyways, u say it well that growing some food of your own is the best way forward and its pretty easy to grow a tonne of veggies in yhe tiniest of spaces. Ive grown and harvested loads of veggies in jusy 30 days usings simple systems with good soil,, so i totally agree with that!

I grew up on an island in Alaska. I am intimately connected to nature, practically feral. On a primal level I live with nature, despite that I am a man. I am Man, the species we are, familiar with the spectrum of human activities and how we fit in the world.

You have never, ever, fed yourself, or you could not make the farcical assumptions you do regarding what we are, need, and do.

"..we should all be fruitarians as fruit is about the only thing that nature intended us to eat..."

Men have arisen in this world, and not by eating fruit. The life cycle of all things is intimately linked, and since the origin of mankind, we have used pointy sticks, fire, and dogs to good effect. We did not spawn ourselves, but were born of nature itself, as were wolves, caribou, and fruits.

No living thing is an island apart from all living things, and were there not wolves, there would not be caribou. Men fit in the world as omnivores, and if you care about whether or not you cause suffering you should be humane. Be merciful, and do not let caribou starve to death in the snow.

Have the mercy shown by wolves, or stand revealed as the tormentor of all life which is utterly dependent on we Men undertaking the role we have evolved to fill. Jains strain at gnats, yet murder them the same. Even Breatharianism is murderous, because when you starve to death without actual food, your microbiome will perish without you to feed it.

Life is paid by death. From the least microbe to the most noble philosopher, all die of something. Life naturally arranges for that to perpetuate it, and to scorn such for vain hubris is rank foolishness.

I will die as I have lived, and pray I feed worms, rather than sit pickled in a cask, or pollute the skies with my ashes.

Aquaculture is indeed vastly preferable to agribusiness for profit, and yet Veganism remains silent on it. Just as Muslims deride Jews, and both Christians, even more so than Hindus or Shintos, Vegists scorn natural people for refusing to be proselytized. I find but little reason for it but conceit.

You bring in Nature, life and death, the wilderness, the 'mercy of the wolf' and its fundamental relationship with the Caribou: brought to mind a book set in Alaska: 'Never Cry Wolf' by Farley Mowat (which you may know) where the "Wolf keeps Caribou" healthy as the Indians say; and the author overturns all the misconceptions and slanderous lies about the Wolf, who shows himself to be of nobler sophistication than Man.

we Men undertaking the role we have evolved to fill.

...this is where we kinda part company, but I just mention it to say that I don't think evolution is a done and dusted deal, it is happening still, and ever changing. A role is a role, an 'act': it is largely composed of perceptions and, perhaps, some belief systems, IMO.

Powerful use of language and an inspiring comment, thank you.

I agree. Wolves aren't particularly noble, but do their job. People can be incredibly noble, but far too many don't live so much as live on. Beyond their time, beyond their means, or on the backs of others.

Evolution is about to leap far beyond what we can imagine, I think. Have a look at
this, and you'll see what I mean. As for what might be done to stop this, visit www.the-odin.com and buy your own CRISPR kit. This genie ain't going back in the bottle.

It is also what I mean about our role. I think of humanity more as sorts of fertilized ova that are about to spread life throughout the universe, and in plethora, abundance, and such ways as we cannot imagine.

I didn't use roles as in institutions, but as niches in ecosystems, which have nothing to do with perceptions or beliefs - except as they impact how we effect our niche. Our affectations as people dramatically affect our effects, lol.

Thanks for your kind words =)

My comment about fruitarians was a sarcastic response to bring told we should be breatharians or that we should not even eat vegetables! .. if u read it again in context u may get that..

I feed myself well and have grown a lot of food btw!

I am glad you are not bedeviled by the Breatharian fantasy.

Buying starts or seeds from a nursery, bags of dirt, and lumber to make beds isn't feeding yourself. It's purchasing the corpses of living creatures from men that have killed them to make those products for you. Soil is nothing more than dung and corpses.

Living in the forest in Alaska, I learned some hard truths about who and what we are, and hunters is part of the answer. The growing season is short there. Veganism in the wild is a death sentence. In cities vegans are blissfully unaware of how their food costs the ecosystems.

When I hunt, I look what I eat in the eye before I kill it. I do so because I love it, and respect it, and because it is merciful to not only that creature, but all the creatures I spare by my hunting. Creatures of every kind and stripe, not only animals.

The forest is a war. Every plant is battling constantly for space and the resources it needs. They kill and eat their competitors too, though it can take centuries. Fungi are like buzzards for plants. It's an amazing system, life, and every living thing kills to eat before dying to feed others.

Pretending to be merciful while looking the other way and hiring out your killing to the agro-industrial complex is not manly. It's not humane. It's cowardice and conceit. Acknowledging that the celery you have for lunch has displaced the vast herds of bison is rational. It's not morally superior to eat the celery than to eat the bison.

When you forage in the wild for food you join in the war of life, and do so directly rather than hiring Monsanto to do it for you. I'm not saying humanity should all become grunting savages, but we should make no pretense that when we eat we do not kill beautiful living breathing animals, because we do kill them when we eat celery grown on the prairies where bison used to roam.

We just hire thugs with hammers to whack our food for us when we buy celery, or the fixings to grow our own from industry.

Wow.’ U sound an little bit fanatical, and slightly misinformed,, but each to our own!

I live in the remote jungles of south india mountains.. my vegetables grow without any harm to the local bison whome I meet eye to eye as they migrate.

Two of my friends are bretharians.. they are doing just fine! Most of my friends are vegetarian and likewise are healthy beings!

Anyways, enjoy your world and i will mine!

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