A Novel Take on Basic IncomesteemCreated with Sketch.

in #money6 years ago (edited)

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check out this video, it is actually quite related and its another sign of the way society is moving. its an hour and a half but it really changed my vision of what is going on in this world. Its a true eye opener
the professor in your video also refers to similar points. So I am sure you already saw it or have heard of it, but if not, really watch this


Another sign is the whole crypto movement and the decentralisation

the sign that the old guarde is fighting back is for me the movement to the right...

I will give it a watch when I have enough time to see it in one sitting.

I also love the aspects of crypto that allow people to prosper even as automation and ai grow and jobs decrease. STEEM especially is that. It's very curious to see what the "old guard" will do with crypto. They are already trying to get derivatives of BTC going and already do futures. Basically they're trying to coopt it with fake crypto. We'll see how that goes.

I think UBI is a very nice notion, but you’d have to plan for all kinds of adjustments and may end up with bigger problems because of it. It would lead to massive inflation unless properly prepared for. Rent control would be neccesary for it to work but you may also have to put set prices on food and other neccesities. Small luxuries like plane tickets may become unaffordable for most people. Basically companies would rush to raise prices if they saw people had the money.

Im still watching though as I comment though, let’s see if he addresses any of these.

These are the very objections I've always had about UBI. That's why I focused this more on the rationale for it not being exploitative in terms of where it comes from (his argument on getting it from corporations) and the feasibility of funding it (my argument on cutting military spending).

But I've always said, if you give everyone $1,000 more per month, within a few years everything will just cost more to where it consumes $1,000 more per month. In practice, my approach to helping others get something like UBI has been teaching people how to develop passive income, which is what has allowed me to retire so early.

We have a global economy so it would be a next step to have other global things. Like the universal basic income.

However, at this point, I have trouble understanding how this concept can be implemented. Let say we have a currency UBI, and the universal basic income is 10 UBIs. But that would imply that the cost of life is uniform throughout the globe, and that is far from true.

While 10 UBIs can mean expenses for a month in Venezuela, it might not buy you a sandwich in the USA.

The alternative to pay UBI based on a cost of life in the country of residence would not make things better from what they are now I believe.

Corporations paying for the UBI is also an utopia at this point. As you remarked, they will simply move jurisdiction. To a fiscal paradise?

Yes, this is why I think we have to stick with the national models, just like fiat is national, except for the EU. Money can still continue to transact in a global system, but the basic income would have to be provided at a national level. The only way I really see it working in my country is by shifting money from our outrageous military expenditures. Over half the country's huge budget goes to the military! And supposedly this is "peace time." I think it would have to be figured out country by country, because I don't think any other country wastes so much money like this.

because I don't think any other country wastes so much money like this.

Oh, how I wish this were true, because then the problem would be localized at one nation, and through international pressure, it would be eventually solved or ameliorated.

But I rather think the opposite is true: most governments became experts at wasting money (with a few exceptions maybe). Probably very few in the military field to this extent, but there are other ways to waste money, from feeding an oversized bureaucracy to some downright illegal.

The thing is, those other things can be harder to really get enough money out of. Even if you have a massive anti-corruption campaign that gets back a bunch of money to put toward the needs of the people, I doubt that would be enough to fund basic income for the whole country enough to really cover even just food and shelter. Only the people of a given country could figure out how to sustainably do it there.

But we could definitely do it here. We have the money. It just goes towards creating bombs , warplanes and other weapons that will never be used.

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Yes, I agree, when money go to a transparent budget, it is easier to lobby for or against it, or for an alternative.

There are of course non-transparent budgets (or not fully transparent), both in the military and in all sort of secret agencies, not even those who approve really know what are for. Those are harder to control, but it doesn't hurt to try.

I guess my main concern about UBI is that over time it will create ever greater dependence upon government and associated corporations, fast forward a generation and will that come at the expense of free speech? Indeed the current Chinese social monitoring programme certainly makes you think? I believe the key to our future success comes from detaching ourselves and not attaching ourselves to the machinations of government and the corporatocracy .. indeed when both these entities are involved there is no such thing as free money and every dollar will (eventually) have a price attached to it. Thank you for the food for thought @indigoocean

Very good points. I too have been moving my life toward more independence. I like the idea of basic income because 1) I believe that a person's right to food, shelter, medical care, and education should not be tied to their productivity because we have intrinsic value as humans that our civilization should account for; and 2) I believe we are moving into an era in which there simply isn't a need for the productivity of as many people as are living. We are in the transition, so there are all these extra people who were created out of needs of the old system who are now superfluous.

So however basic income is made to work, and whatever the drawbacks, I think it may really be coming down to either basic income or massive extermination of 50% of the world's population. Maybe we're creating the latter with our economic policy toward the planet itself. Maybe it's all a part of the master plan. I vote for basic income though.

Yes I am certainly sympathetic to the points you raise, indeed it's easy for m to bemoan UBI with a roof over my head and food in my belly .. perhaps not so with failing crops and a starving family. My main bone of contention is that it's simply a band aid over a far larger and deep rooted societal problem .. indeed problems created by the same entities that now espouse UBI.

The intelligent and educated self determination of resources and land use for said communities is key to overcoming our societal imbalances. Indeed in Africa for example we have indigenous crops failing for lack of water, alongside industrial scale plantations of flowers that use all the natural resources. .. UBI will fix none of these problems, it will simply enable business as usual for the multi-nationals and further detach said communities from their lands and way of life .. a sweetener that over time will become increasingly bitter.

By unleashing human ingenuity and cutting the regulation that so often holds us back I believe we already have the tech and the will to answer many of the worlds problems .. without the need for UBI. Our governments and the corporatocracy are holding us back from achieving this ideal and as such I see UBI as a placation. Of course I could be wrong and you raise some valid and pertinent points so as always I keep an open mind. Thanks again my friend.

Really good points. I didn’t know that was happening in Africa, but now that you say it, it’s easy to imagine. There definitely is a deeper problem than just automation and loss of jobs. And also systemic problems caused by what to me is a fundamental inaccuracy about the value of a human life and really of life in general. This systemic issue is not addressed by basic income. We do have to go further.

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Basic income would be nice for developing countries most especially because they are passing through alot of difficulty than the developed countries.

It can go a long way to reduce the poverty the people are facing and also help to develop ideas that are lying dormant in people in these countries. A little help from the Government to people with ideas can reduce poverty in a country.

Going to school is nice but beyond schooling, basic income is also a necessity

Thank you for sharing, pls i dropped you a message on discord.

I most would like to see basic income in developing countries, though it is also needed in countries considered rich. There are many poor people in rich countries. The gap between the haves and have nots is widening everywhere. I grew up hungry all the time, without adequate protection from the cold. Sometimes we had no utilities simply because my family could not afford them. And there was always worry about things getting even worse. Meanwhile the city I lived in was and still is the richest city in this entire rich country!

These sorts of disparities are growing all over the world, with more and more people winding up in the "struggling for survival" category with each passing year.

Something must be done, or the struggle will be lost for many people, and they will die. It will be war, famine, disease, natural disaster, who knows the source. But this current economic model cannot support the lives of so many people as the machines start doing the work humans were once needed to do.

I think basic income will be good for people, but it depends on the country involved. For example basic income can be successful in countries with natural resources that can be sold, like crude oil like my country Nigeria.

Good point. It could work in the US because we have such a staggering amount of military waste, and in countries like yours because you have oil wealth. But as the world moves toward renewable energy, oil rich countries would have to build up their renewable power industries also to be able to sustain such an expense social program.

Isnt one of the points that it ends up saving money on healthcare and other social services, as it provides people with a means to thrive rather than suffer? Agreed.. if the world cut funding to military... sadly can't see that happening. I love the idea of UBI.

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It would save some on some social programs, but not healthcare, since that isn't paid for by the government now. Also not nearly enough to make up for the additional costs.

It would be more taking the place of things like welfare, which only some people even get, food stamps, housing vouchers, etc. Again, all things only the poor get now. But even rich people would get the same basic income these poor people are getting. The poor would find that an amount they now get is less than what they used to get combined for welfare, housing, food and utility subsidies. That's if we only took what we're paying now, and spread it among people who aren't getting benefits now as well.

The money really has to come from somewhere it is not going to help people now, which the only thing I can see that being is weapons we won't use and corporations not paying taxes.

I don't think the military reduction solution would be as hard as you think, given that the military protested the amounts they got in the most recent budget as too high!

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Great topic but I think that it can’t used by developing countries

I hope it can, but I can see the difficulty.

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