Censorship and suppression of free speech on Steem. Really?

in #steem5 years ago

Some time ago I wrote the following text on censorship called, Is it censored? and rather than write it all again, I thought I would put it here before continuing on a little further to drive my point home a bit deeper about the censorship resistance of Steem and how it protects free speech.

Note: I have cut out one part that is a bit irrelevant for this to make it shorter. But you can view it in the original linked above if you choose.


PART 1

Is it censored?

Censorship:

I just read a post claiming censorship from being flagged. This is always a bit of a touchy subject here since people think that freedom of speech comes with freedom from consequence and although I don't think anyone should flag without a decent reason, I can't see how flags are censorship.

censorship
ˈsɛnsəʃɪp/
noun
the suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security.
"the regulation imposes censorship on all media"

Now, that is the definition of censorship yet, I don't see how flags can be that. Yes, a flag (or enough flags) can potentially grey-out a post but, even then the posts are available and with a click or two, completely viewable. They are not really hidden at all and will forever reside on the blockchain with only a Hardfork able to remove them which requires witness approval as far as I know. This means that there is freedom of speech here and there is not censorship other than the self-censorship people experience.

Flags

Now, as far as flags themselves go:

Flagging a post can remove rewards and make this material less visible. Some common reasons to flag:
  • Disagreement on rewards
  • Fraud or Plagiarism
  • Hate Speech or Internet Trolling
  • Intentional miss-categorized content or Spam

This is the suggested uses of flags but on a blockchain with freedom of speech and no censorship, anything the code allows is possible (of which we are all too well aware) and suggestions are just that, suggestions. No one is forced to flag nor, are they forced to follow the suggestions about flags. Blockchain freedom. Well, as free as your own self-censorship allows.

This is the same for earnings as again we are aware as until they are yours (after payout) they are not yours. They are potential earning only. Most people tend to censor themselves and not post 'freely' because they want to earn something at the end of the week and approaching some topics, groups and people poorly will likely eventuate in some kinds of flags. But again, the flags aren't actually censorship and they do not infringe on freedom of speech. You are free, speak.

But, there is in general, consequences to speech of all kinds and some people who are either insensitive or hyper-sensitive can exact brutal costs if their position is threatened. Some might just do it for the fun of it. But at Steem at least, there is no cost paid by the person to receiving flags however, there could be cost of future rewards, support and of course, reputation. Reputation is not the person and to identify with it as if it is is egotistical at best.

So, post whatever you want but, the blockchain will record it for posterity, you need not fear censorship. At least, not yet.

In conclusion

  • To finish up, as much as I disagree with people just flagging content because they don't like what it says, currently the code allows so, get used to it because most people play the code, not the ethical implications.

  • You can post what you want freely but there are consequences to your words/actions. This might cost you or, it might help you.

  • In general, if you approach topics openly and earnestly, it is very rare you will ever get flagged. Those that get flagged are usually in some way looking to incite a strong reaction from people and when they get it, complain. The funny thing is that the person who complained about being censored is still able to post whatever they want. They are not oppressed, they are not beaten, enslaved, caged or murdered for having their views. They are free to speak.

Back to work to make some money to pay debts <<< Real censorship.


PART 2

Do you need the money?

Again, this is a touchy subject but since we are on Steem, let's get into it a little.

If you rely on the income from your posts, you are likely going to have to watch what you say if what you say is likely to incite flags.

While some people might not like this; on Steem, your speech is protected; Not your payout.

Anyone with access to the blockchain can write whatever they choose and have almost zero fear of having what they have said destroyed, taken away or hidden. Oh, you didn't know?? Not only are the non-accessible accounts available on the other interfaces like I outlined in this post a few days ago, interfaces like busy.org, partiko and the one I am posting on now, steeve.app do not even grey out the posts that have been flagged to grey point, like Steemit.com does. With more and more people using alternate interfaces, the flags have very little effect except taking payout value.

Again, taking payout is not censorship.

This is the problem with people wanting to earn for their freedom of speech on Steem, as Steem is a place that is free to act upon. Free to say what you want, free to upvote what you want, free to flag what you want and as I mentioned above, the payout isn't yours until it is in your wallet. Up until that happens, it is the blockchain's as it hasn't been mined until it is transferred from the pool into a wallet. What that also means is saying "you took my payout" is also not true as it was put back into the pool and currently 'costs' the opportunity of the equivalent upvote value or potential curation return for the for the one doing the flagging.

Steem is a free-market system where people are able to be rewarded for their content by upvotes, but that amount isn't finalized until the payout. It is also a free-market system that allows for removal of rewards until that payout time also, and as much as some people want to have their cake and eat it too, getting paid to say whatever you want isn't always going to work here unless what you say attracts more upvote value than downvote value.

But, this is the problem with relying on Steem income and it is the same issue with websites relying on advertising revenue. Once there is the reliance, one has to bow to the dollar that is required. This is why advertisers can have so much power over who and what gets published or banned on the centralized platforms, because essentially the platforms that rely on that income to survive are in prison and are the advertiser's prison bitch.

Not a pretty situation is it? But, it isn't censorship as the content is still not only available, but COMPLETELY visible not just on the blockchain, but through numerous interfaces with a few of them being among the most used Dapps in the world. Getting flagged doesn't make anyone a victim of censorship or even suppression of free speech, it just take whatever earning potential there is, which is a reward, not a salary. No one is suppressed to speak, however they might be suppressed from earning rewards. These are two different things.

Reliance on Steem for income itself is already a poor position but expecting income for anything one wants to say, is an even worse position. If on top of this one has to earn here for some reason, it is an utterly terrible position. There are always various costs in any position and there are potential costs in speaking one's mind also and, that could be something like the loss of employability or, the loss of rewards on Steem. The other thing people should remember in this world is, speaking one's mind doesn't automatically make it correct.

I am sure there will be many complaints to this and perhaps even some flags but, I don't rely on Steem for an income, I work real jobs. Perhaps one day that might change but I don't see myself relying on Steem for my livelihood for a very long time as it just isn't ready for it in my opinion. Not that it would matter that much as most of what I write about isn't controversial in the slightest including this piece, except for people who disagree with me perhaps.

I will end this with the same line as PART 1;

Back to work to make some money to pay debts <<< Real censorship.

Taraz
[ a Steem original ]


View this post on Steeve, an AI-powered Steem interface

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I don't think it is a simple as the way you have laid out, and I see many laying it out. Let me pitch a what if scenario.

Suppose you wish to go into a certain neighborhood. Your best friends are in that neighborhood and you have enjoyed going there regularly for quite some time. But you begin hearing stories of your friends getting robbed there. And on your way into the neighborhood over time you begin watching others getting robbed for going in there, targeted for the crime of visiting there. You might begin to formulate the crazy notion that there is nothing to differentiate yourself from the others and if you continue going there it isn't if you will be robbed, but when.

Of course, the robbery is a form of reverse robbery. We always talk of "It isn't yours till you receive it," thinking in terms of the person who would be awarded the reward. But that focuses on one part of the equation only. It ignores the ones who want to reward from the stake they hold. I would ask you this. If people see that their votes will be negated, how long until those votes stop being cast to reward on those people? How long before those being flagged start being shunned?

Now one can say there is no censorship taking place, its an allowed use of the law (code). But seems pretty clear to me that it is sending a strong message to people of certain mindsets/beliefs, their kind is not welcome here and only people of opposite beliefs are welcome to earn here. And if you plan on supporting these mindsets, plan on not obtaining rewards so don't waste your time here. Because your time and investment will see no fruits.

Now, it is what it is and no amount of bitching and crying can change it. I don't foresee any forks coming as some propose. I don't foresee any changes to behavior coming about from any flag wars as proposed by some who wish to build some kind of super account via delegation (especially since flag wars benefit those with larger stake, lol). But to pretend this is not a form of censorship via behavior modification is simplifying this to a degree that ignores reality. Smash enough wallets and watch as others either modify what they use their wallets to support, or they give up on the idea that their wallets hold value.

And while I don't see any of the scenarios playing out I mentioned above, I do see this producing bad word of mouth, especially by those who invested and have been targeted or run in circles who have been. Of course many of those who reach that stage will probably at some point decide to power down and move their assets somewhere else where their friends or themselves are not targeted for the views they hold. One can argue chasing these folks off is not censorship, but seems a pretty fine line to me that has the same hard feelings and same results just the same.

I fully agree with your whole comment @practicalthought - that is exactly my experience, I am self censoring and my like minded friends who haven't done that are now no longer posting because they get flagged...

Again, you are confusing freedom of Speech with ability to earn on that speech. Everyone is free to speak, there are always reactions of some kind to it, whether it be clapping, booing or silence. The market is always free, free to be manipulated also, free to have governments brainwash, free to have terrorists enact their brutality.

If Steem is killed economically because of flagging, it has nothing to to with freedom of Speech. And like @edicted said, a front-end could quite easily display it all. This is Steem, almost anyone can make a front-end of some sort with a little study. Might not be pretty, but this is Steem so it will blend in.

When it comes to earning though, this is a free-market system also and the 'rules' are well known. People like it when they fall in their favor but are quick to complain and scream unfair when they don't. I know enough about living as a minority and taking abuse to understand that no matter what happens, it is my experience to live and my journey to take and whether it empowers or scars me is up to me.

Fair and unfair is relative. half the world doesn't have access to the internet, 1 billion live without electricity and people are complaining about earning on their freedom of speech on a platform that protects what they say? It seems very first world problem.

No one is forced on, no one is forced off. Suppression is self-suppression only. There are some people in this world that no matter what happens to them, they can't be suppressed. You can't be granted freedom by any master or change in the code. You are free or you are not.

I am yet to meet someone truly free because... we all need something. When something is needed, it is a weakness.

The root of all suffering and that stuff...

Which reminds me, anyone seen our resident shit comment enabler, parody plagiarizing, @sarah-xx charming, gay porn spammer, defensive threat maker and otherwise whining about censorship and "flaggot whales" self-admited-self-censoring-self-proclaimed..

Posted using Partiko Android

Steemit is having the living snot censored out of it. Because of that I'm not doing posts about several subjects that I'd like to do posts about. I think that the idea that because a flagged post can still be opened, it's not really censored, is utter bollocks!

Once we piss off the wrong account, we are all over for ever more

Here is where I'm not going to link to some posts or accounts that I would privately link to on Discord (froX) or email ([email protected])

But that is a subject we can't discuss...

Depends on what you consider censorship I think. If people want to get their words out, they can get their words out here and they can even do it with anonymity.

But they can watch their account get taken down to sub zero so that nobody can see what their posts actually are - not even their own followers - and yes that has happened to two of my friends because of an "account" I can't mention!

Depends on the interface used I think. An interface can ignore all flags if it wants, payouts will still be affected though. An interface can leave off flags altogether too of course.

Given that 90% of people here use the Steemit interface, once an account has a sub zero rating it's all over on Steemit really.

Here is where I give you no picture, and no link, because I know what happens next if I do.

Is that censorship?

Self-censorship.

I also think that the steemit.com interface is down to something like 40% but I haven't seen the numbers for a few months. It has dropped away massively with partiko, esteem, steempeak and steeve taking a large percentage away.

none of those sites really work properly - i'd use steempeak now they have fixed the image size on the feed - but they still haven't fixed the comments...

and steempeak hides flagged posts even more!

partiko is just for bloody phones

everyone i talk to still uses steemit except they use busy for posting to get the upvote - otherwise busy is crap

Censorship can be a slippery beast, as can the whole notion of "free speech."

The heart of the matter often seems to be the inconsistencies within the human mind.

When you are given "freedom," by extension I get the same freedom.

When you have the freedom to run off at the mouth about whatever you want — however absurd, inflammatory or sociopathic — I have the freedom to disagree with you and tell you you are wrong.

That's where we run into problems.

A lot of people extend their "rights" to not be censored to include "not being disagreed with."

Not how it works. You can't expect to put out something dodgy and not get "in kind" responses.

As for the "income" part; nobody works for Steem, nobody is under contract with Steem, nobody was promised a damn thing here. People tend to forget that and slip into this whole notion that they are "owed" something, as a result of their participation. If you want "protected" income, go schlep drinks at a bar or drive a delivery truck... and don't say "but I INVESTED!" Maybe you did... but so what? If you bought Amazon stock, do you seriously think anyone would care that you're unhappy about the dividend the stock paid, last quarter? Not a chance. WHY would this be any different?

=^..^=

When you are given "freedom," by extension I get the same freedom.

It is funny that it needs to be given, isn't it?

As for the "income" part; nobody works for Steem, nobody is under contract with Steem, nobody was promised a damn thing here.

Yep and it is a completely opt-in system and, opt-out also. People come to earn off steem which is fine but expect that anything goes still gets paid as if that is the way it should work. Free market means, anything goes, including retaliatory flags if someone chooses to.

Free market means, anything goes, including retaliatory flags if someone chooses to.

You are incorrect.

Free markets do not encompass retaliatory actions as part of the dynamic.
Retaliation means in reaction to an aggressive action ( contravening the non aggression principle)
If the NAP is not contravened, it cannot be retaliatory , but initiated.

The upvotes given are a positive action - free market.
The downvote is a negative action - not free market.

defending the action 'becuase that's the system does not make it morally correct, using the true free market principles as the template.

What most people often forget is the concept of consequence. Being it a more digital environment these days, consequences themselves have become more intangible which leads to poor decision for some.

Posted using Partiko iOS

Being it a more digital environment these days, consequences themselves have become more intangible which leads to poor decision for some.

People feel secure in their anonymity and distance behind a screen. Those that talk of free speech and complain when they feel they can't speak up.. I wonder if in the real world, they would speak up in the middle of an angry mob who thought otherwise. We are all free to speak at any time we choose, consequences don't stop the opportunity, they stop us.

I agree with you on all points, especially that even though I'm entitled to say whatever I want on Steem, I'm not entitled to get payed for saying whatever I want.

It is a free market and the market decides what and how much I get payed for.

In this sense Steem is beautifully designed and one of the only problems I see is the early 100 percent inflation rate for founding members which created too much SP concentration in these early accounts.

Posted using Partiko Android

It is a free market and the market decides what and how much I get payed for.

@baah used some good examples:

"It's uglier than that, it seems that people that consider curation censorship haven't considered curation and instead laser like focused on "suppression". You know what shuts people up about this, every single time? If this were a rating system on amazon or youtube and something was voted as pure shit, commented on and reviewed as pure shit, then they won't sell or and all they get is pure shit.IThe refined version would go like
So is "suppressing" something on youtube through votes and people talking it down, or taking someones profits on amazon through rating and reviewing censorship, if so why, and if not why is that different than reviewing something on here and curating it into "suppression"?"

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freedom of speech with censorship or getting flag because somebody didnt like how you deliver speech is not a freedom of speech at all.

people has to learn how to tolerate with each other even they didnt like what other say. but still we cant control their mindset which has been teach from their childhood until they grow up

Posted using Partiko iOS

freedom of speech with censorship or getting flag because somebody didnt like how you deliver speech is not a freedom of speech at all.

Did they say what they wanted, was what they wanted to say, changed or affected? Everyone is free to speak here. What is said can draw applause or condemnation but it can be said.

When libertarians and anarchists shrill about "freedom," they are merely venting discontent about not having enough license to be held unaccountable for their vices. True freedom can not exist without responsibility and obligation. Consequences of speech and actions ought to be an expected facet of freedom, not something to whine about incessantly.

they are merely venting discontent about not having enough license to be held unaccountable for their vices.

I like the way you said this.

True freedom can not exist without responsibility and obligation.

Most people spend their lives trying with all their might to get out of responsibility and obligation by doing things that inevitably brings them more.

Consequences of speech and actions ought to be an expected facet of freedom, not something to whine about incessantly.

Behind a screen, consequence of speech is largely voided. A face to face only world would see a lot fewer people 'speaking freely'. The distance of consequence means any idea can be pushed regardless of validity and in time, extremes of thought can rage unchecked in silos and released in waves.

Sometimes the act of flagging and greying something out can bring more attention to a post, especially if it's then talked about. I often click on greyed out comments for the entertainment of seeing why they were greyed out. There's sometimes a juicy argument going on. ;D

When it comes to earning, you are always at the mercy of other influences. There is no guarantee even of keeping a job in the outernet either.

Posted using Partiko Android

I often click on greyed out comments for the entertainment of seeing why they were greyed out. There's sometimes a juicy argument going on. ;D

I do too :D

When it comes to earning, you are always at the mercy of other influences. There is no guarantee even of keeping a job in the outernet either.

I wonder how many people speak freely at their work place and expect no consequence?

I wonder how many people speak freely at their work place and expect no consequence?

That's a very good point. I'm sure there are some that do, but usually they prefer being on the dole! XD

Hubby has had to deal with racism and giving out warnings before. This was to Pakistanis who didn't even see an issue as it was part of their culture with their caste system. So yes, you most certainly have to self censor in the work place, even if you can't see why.

Posted using Partiko Android

Steem hasn't censored anyone as far as I'm aware. Steemit has censored plenty, and that is their right. Nothing is stopping anyone from making a front-end where flagged content is the most prominently displayed.

Nothing is stopping anyone from making a front-end where flagged content is the most prominently displayed.

Yep, nothing. It actually might be somewhat interesting :D

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