"Losing 20%" : Low cost for high gain?

in #steem5 years ago (edited)

I was thinking about getting an early night tonight but there are just too many things going on and I would be remiss not to have a few thoughts on them as I know that I would put my head on the pillow and then, think about them anyway.

There are two major posts that came out in the last 3 hours, the first from Steemit Inc on @Steemitblog talking about the reduction in costs for nodes and the implementation of RocksDB, which I won't go into because it is all there behind the link.

The second is from @BlockTrades on the beginning of development on the Steem worker proposal system that looks to take some portion of the pool and earmark it for development functions from the community.

I am in support of the system even though I would have preferred it to be funded by the entire community by sectioning off 10 percent of the pool for development and then distributing the remaining 90 to the other functions.

The functions that currently draw from the inflation pool are:

The main reason I would prefer it to come from all parties equally is not really out of "fairness" but public opinion. If it did come out of all groups it actually, wouldn't be "fair." The reason is that essentially three of those groups, curation, interest and witness all require investment into the platform, which is risk.

The author and comment rewards are essentially risk free when it comes to Steem. The rewards are 52% of the pool which is inflationary on the currency which means, each Steem drawn actually reduces the value of all Steem and, that 52% of the pool or around 13 million Steem this year is much more likely to go out to the marketplace to be sold. Nothing wrong with that but people need to remember that for them to get the Steem for rewards in the first place, someone with stake (Steem Power) had to vote them in some way knowing that it added risk to their investment.

There is no problem with selling the Steem earned but one has to remember that the sellers do reduce the value of Steem and it effects the very people who upvoted them in the first place. Steem is very leaky for a place where everyone says that they want Steem to do well in the future. Everyone has their personal position though but, should those taking the risk for the future be charged with financing people's lives now on a startup platform yet to reach 3 years of age?

I know right? That leaves a sour taste in your mouth perhaps, but there is a much longer game ahead than the reward mechanisms now and if people do actually want Steem to do well, they better start behaving in ways that will get it there in the longrun. Too many people are much too short-sighted and while it is fun to mention the struggling masses, we would be doing them a disservice in the longrun to help a little now when we are able to do so much more in the future if development takes place.

The other thing that people need to consider is that while rewards might drop 20%, the value of the Steem coin could increase much more that if what is getting developed and hopefully implemented does its job. Also, I hope that the developers who are aiming to earn from the Proposal System don't try to double dip their ideas and take from the rewards pool as well.

Once the proposal system is in place, the developers will have essentially 20% of the current rewards just for them so, in an act of good faith, development updates should perhaps decline rewards. You want to get paid as a developer? Develop what the community needs and wants - it is time your ideas have to stand on their own two feet.

A lot of the current pool goes to developer posts anyway so declining rewards mitigates a fair bit of the loss for content producers and, the developers do not need to compete with content producers. The hope is of course that thy will have to compete as there would be a fund that could attract more developers into Steem that bring new talent and ideas with them - Perhaps even some professional teams will throw their hats into the ring and set up trial Steem development projects.

While I write this, it is probably a surprise or many to even see the numbers above when it comes to where the pool goes as most here have no idea there is an interest paid on Steem holdings and it is 16% of the pool or, curation is only 16%. Wasn't it a 75/25 percent split? Well, those with stake do understand the platform and its economics to at least some degree because, they are actually invested. When there is potential for loss, most people do a little more due diligence, something that those only here for the reward tend not to do. The reason is, rewards on Steem carry no risk.

People see it as pay - it is not - it is reward. And, that reward only is possible because people who power up are willing to carry the risk of not selling it as fast as they get it. Many people like to talk about the highly staked like they are somehow uncaring bastards but that is far from the truth of the matter in my experience with many of the highly staked. Many of them do it tough each day to keep their Steem powered up and still they are sharing their votes, increasing their risk exposure and providing for people they know are 50/50 likely to sell and deflate their value more.

What this does mean if this happens though is that holding Steem for the future has a better chance of seeing added value since there is ore chance that those who get it through development use it to actually add value to the blockchain in various ways and, there is less of it leaking out to markets. In time, this fund is likely to shrink if Steem increases significantly in price or, get used to supercharge the decentralization of applications and communities in an organic and highly diversified form.

Then there are SMTs to reward content contributors too. Perhaps the 100% stake lock will happen eventually after all and those with Steem become the the engine that drives the development for SMT platforms to proliferate into all corners of the internet. There are plenty of earning potentials regardless of if people will claim that creators lose 20%. They won't, as the developers will turn their attention to the Proposal System. What is earned how ever could be much more valuable than when you earned it and potentially, just because some paid developers did their job.

I am pretty excited about where it could take Steem but then, I have spent two years building and talking about the potential in the future. It looks like finally, the community is getting its shit together and discovering that in order to develop, developers need to have incentives.

Taraz
[ A steem original ]

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Many people like to talk about the highly staked like they are somehow uncaring bastards but that is far from the truth of the matter in my experience with many of the highly staked. Many of them do it tough each day to keep their Steem powered up and still they are sharing their votes, increasing their risk exposure and providing for people they know are 50/50 likely to sell and deflate their value more.

So much truth there. I'm not too concerned about the selling, though. Every author who cashes out $50 is making it real to his friends and family. It quells ponzi scheme misgivings and makes cheap Steem available to someone willing to trade it for fiat.

I don't mind the selling either, especially for those dong it tough. I just wish they don't sell all. It has nothing to do with me but, holding 10% back for a few years might not just get them out of a tight spot but instead change their lives for the better.

Wisdom - The thing you get just after you needed it.

The other thing that people need to consider is that while rewards might drop 20%, the value of the Steem coin could increase much more that if what is getting developed and hopefully implemented does its job.

This is what i'm hoping for when I likely vote in favor of the author cuts to support WP.

20% on a post worth $2, isn't really going to break anyone, and if STEEM 10x's from this work, I'm sure most would be pretty OK with their rewards then.

Yep, it isn't going to be easy for many to get their head around I think as they don't realise what it has taken. People talk about selling for 8 dollars happily like those who held are fools. Just imagine if all the whales, orcas and dolphins dumped on them. People complain about Steemit selling 3 million and forget that there is 200 million powered up.

1 point I'd like to make is that there are people that buy food with their post payout. Try telling someone struggling to get by in Venezuela to take a 20% paycut, on top of how much they have already lost out from the bear market. I get the big picture, and the long term benefits and all that, but why should the little guys have to pay the full price of this without impacting on those that could most afford to lose a little in the short run? My suggestion: Take the "worker"funds out of the pool first (10%) and then keep the rest of the funds with the same distribution rates. Everyone pays a smaller price for something aimed at benefiting everyone. Why should just 1 group have to pay for something to benefit 4 groups?

I am also paying for my food via STEEM, and have done for over a year. 20% off my earnings, living in Spain means back to work for me. I understand this isn't an option for some, and think the 'what about Venezuela' point will crop up a few times in the next few days.

Blocktrade's comments thread will likely yeald a better arguement than mine: https://steemit.com/blocktrades/@blocktrades/blocktrades-beginning-development-of-steem-proposal-system

Personally, I don't think a 3 year old blockchain project should be given a pass/fail for its inability to support Venezuela.

I think author rewards are the least important of the 4 (or 3 if you group comments in?). There will always be authors (Steem will always pay better than Facebook) but a cut on Witnesses could see an exodus. Chopping curation, which has a huge push to be increased recently (that didn't happen), could see the end of anyone trying to discover and support the best content. Bringing Author rewards closer to Curation could see a change for the better for content discover?

As Taraz mentioned, there is no risk here to the un-invested creators with no SP. If the large-staked holders chose to sell we wouldn't be discussing this for much longer.

I really do not understand people who are active on Steemit that are not powering up 100%. You either believe in it or not. If you want to day trade, you can do it on an exhange.

I rather have 80% of something (even $0.01) than 100% of zero. Value will be created as the worker proposal system will add sustainability to the development of the protocol.

Posted using Partiko iOS

Here's a thought worth mentioning:

As Steem increases in value, holders of steem see their holdings go up at the same rate.

Authors, however, see their author rewards go up at a slower rate. This is because, as steem becomes more valuable, more users, those who abandoned Steem when it was down, come back and start voting with their power, diluting the pool.

Now, I don't have a problem with that trend. But it does mean that holders have more to gain from improvements in steem than authors.

You talk about holders taking risk. Well, I know lots of folks who treat Steem like a full-time job that pays far less than minimum wage. They're trying to build a name for themselves, they're taking their energy and attention away from other endeavors so that they can invest money, yes, but also time and thought in making Steem a valuable platform by bringing good content to it. Those are the people who will be most impacted by a straight 20% cut to author rewards. Those are the people you want to attract and retain. HODLers are fine, but they aren't, long-term, what will drive other people to come to the chain. And that's what will make steem valuable. Yes, if current holders dump their stake there will be a temporary drop in value. But that would be a good thing. We'd get a more real view of the value of steem. I speak as someone who has also invested real money in steem. The people who are holding just because they're waiting for it to rise in value are the ones who will sell when it reaches its arbitrary high point in their eyes, so they are still making it fall in value, just at a different point in time.

Steem's value is dictated by the value you place on being able to reward your content creators. That should be front and center.

Now, I don't have a problem with that trend. But it does mean that holders have more to gain from improvements in steem than authors.

Holders should have more direct to gain but, one thing that you are forgetting is that it is the development of the ecosystem that empowers contributors. That development comes at a cost somewhere and the authors gain someewhere too. For a lot of authors to have opportunity on Steem, a lot of development needs to take place.

Those are the people who will be most impacted by a straight 20% cut to author rewards. Those are the people you want to attract and retain.

Again, what is forgotten is that those coming in are not losing anything, they are agreeing to participate at the current rule set. Did you know that once upon a time the author rewards were 50%, not 75%? The reason it didn't work at the time was because of the poor distribution at the start but, it would likely be somewhat okay now.

The people who are holding just because they're waiting for it to rise in value are the ones who will sell when it reaches its arbitrary high point in their eyes, so they are still making it fall in value, just at a different point in time.

The 'different point in time' is quite a vital component don't you think considering that there is not many buying at 'this point in time'.

Steem's value is dictated by the value you place on being able to reward your content creators. That should be front and center.

SSteem at the moment is a minimum viable product and those that are here now should understand this. THe entire BC industry is in its infancy yet people are trying to live off steem. Good luck to them but, they are likely in for a rough road , especially if they aren't wanting to power up.

The reason is that essentially three of those groups, curation, interest and witness all require investment into the platform, which is risk.

You're saying this like there's no investment from 'authors'. Authors, ideally, invest a considerable amount of time, thought, and energy into the various ways they contribute to the blockchain -- yourself included, no doubt, with this quite lengthy post. I would imagine that you didn't just happen to find this well thought out and well written argument just laying on the ground, and decided to toss it up for shits and giggles.

In fact, I believe I've seen you write numerous times about the consistency of frequency and quality that you try to contribute. This is an investment as well, which places risk on you of not having your investment rewarded. In fact, I'd say it's more difficult to invest time, thought, and energy such as this, than it is to invest money and passively let it gain in value due to the fact that you happened to have a large chunk of capital laying around.

The Steem Proposal System, as far as I understand it, is being created to improve and add value to the blockchain. Ideally, this would have the effect of increasing the value of each STEEM token available, which has the effect of producing drastically higher benefits to large stake holders and witnesses (their 11%, while smaller than the 50% author pool, is divided up amongst a significantly smaller group of people).

The proposal to fund the SPS pool solely from a reduction in author rewards seems to me like people wanting to have their cake and eat it too -- or build a wall and have Mexico pay for it -- or increase ones own reward while placing the entirety of risk on someone else. I understand why it's being proposed that way, but I don't think it's equitable.

If one places value on the idea of "proof of brain", then there must be some form of investment from using your brain to create something, which is an "active investment" -- leading to risk if there's no return on your investment. Why is passive investment such as stake or capital always valued in higher standing than an active investment like labour or 'proof of brain'? If anything, labour is in much more limited supply than stake and capital.

I would imagine that you didn't just happen to find this well thought out and well written argument just laying on the ground, and decided to toss it up for shits and giggles.

What does this mean? I have written many much longer than this and taken zeroes on the reward. If one posts for the reward alone, they better be bloody good at it.

I'd say it's more difficult to invest time, thought, and energy such as this, than it is to invest money and passively let it gain in value due to the fact that you happened to have a large chunk of capital laying around.

It depends how one comes by that money in the first place, isn't it? not everyone is a pre-miner, some actually have jobs they work hard at. I have two full-time jobs now to make ends meet and create here so yes, I know the investment it takes to write after 2500+ posts similar to this one in length over 2 years.

(their 11%, while smaller than the 50% author pool, is divided up amongst a significantly smaller group of people).

I think that the witness spread should go deeper into the witness pool. keep the top 20 getting more but, reward further down to the top 50 more heavily. This is also because the cost of running nodes is coming down and hopefully more run full nodes.

The proposal to fund the SPS pool solely from a reduction in author rewards seems to me like people wanting to have their cake and eat it too

It can seem that way I know, it seemed like it to me too but, I live in both worlds as a content producer and, someone who has never sold any crypto. Two years work, not one benefit other than what is in my wallet unused. However, having it there and using it has benefited hundreds if not thousands of people who have sold. I am not the only one who has done similar. There is a large risk in holding Steem and if it fails, I lose every bit of work put in from a financial standpoint.

As said, I would prefer it get taken equally across the group by sectioning off part of the pool and distributing the rest as normal but, that would only be for social ease reasons, not fairness.

If one places value on the idea of "proof of brain", then there must be some form of investment from using your brain to create something, which is an "active investment"

Again, this proof of brain thing people have on steem is weird as they apply one side as only to Steem while they want to take the value off Steem into the real world. What about proof of brain off of Steem? Even after all the complaints about how unfair it is that people pre-mined, how many people given the opportunity right now would have the knowhow to premine? I don't. opportunity is useless without skills and skills go across borders and aren't contained in only Steem. Proof of brain is understanding how to connect Steem successfully to the world for usage.

I would predict that the final pool division is not set in stone yet.

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Once the proposal system is in place, the developers will have essentially 20% of the current rewards just for them so, in an act of good faith, development updates should perhaps decline rewards. You want to get paid as a developer? Develop what the community needs and wants - it is time your ideas have to stand on their own two feet.

That would be nice. I just hope we're not creating a Steemit Inc Junior that just keeps holding their hand out for more money and doesn't finish the job or takes years what others in the community can do in weeks for 1/100th of the cost.

I have mixed emotions hoping a fund like that can attract full or part-time talent that was laid off by Steem or another blockchain platform during the downturn that can make much-needed improvements to attract new investors.

I am hoping that part of the proposal system is tracking of completion etc and that each developer can be assigned a trust metric.

So basically making the developers accountable to the community – which we don't have with Steemit Inc since it's a private company.

As said, getting shit together finally. No point complaining about the authority unless there is a way to take responsibility for what that authority takes care of. I think that in the end, it had to happen and perhaps it is better now that price is low. As prices increase, maybe new dev teams take an interest too.

Developers are the ones who make the magic in the end, on the technical level at least; community tells what it wants. Obviously nothing happens without developers, so it sounds like a reasonable investment to incentivise developers. Ain't no other magic tricks that would bring long term increase in value.

Agreed to the trust metric, accountability, and to attracting new dev teams as prices rise!


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