A thought on why 50/50 rewards will ruin this place
50/50 rewards places EQUAL weight on content creators and upvoters.
Do you think pressing an upvote button is equally worth it in rewards to someone who actually wrote a post or comment?
50/50 misaligns the entire incentive structure of Steem.
@aggroed @yabapmatt @ausbitbank @krnel
Tagging you guys cuz you're awesome. Please discuss and dive deep into why this is an issue.
I think you're right 50/50 split won't do anything to help content creators or grow this platform. It's basically self voting without actually self voting. It will just piss off the content creators when they see half their earning going to someone else.
!dramatoken
Well, @whatsup actually reads when she upvotes, so that does take longer, but I do agree many will just upvote whomever they think will be successful.
Thanks for the Drama token ;) I didn't think this would cause drama heh.
If I am remembering correctly many posts are upvoted by bots and or autoupvoting curation trails. I see that there is no incentive or mechanism for manual curation or at least some kind of guidelines that could be enforced. Since that is the case its just the wild west. I conclude that giving 50/50 rewards just increases the quantity of curation rewards to everyone but not the quality of upvoting.
So if the witnesses think they need to increase the quantity of curation rewards because that will somehow improve quality, they are sorely mistaken. There is 0 incentive structure for anyone to improve curation quality. We can just upvote anything or anyone without caring, collect our 50% curation reward(something like 25% to 35% APR).
I don't think any system that allows blind upvoting with such a rate of return could last very long or be considered legitimate.
there is no mechanism that will "make" people curate with quality; even going past the subjective nature of "quality", and system change can be met with an equal gaming tweak
And let's be clear. Most upvoting is done by bots. So, we are giving more money to bots versus creators of content. This is VERY wrong.
there have been a few people that have contended that "communities" would have helped this issue. I agree with that, as it has always been networking that has gotten me better rewards on my creation
SPAM/Content/Censor Bots and Whale Wars ruined this place.
I'm with you on this. What we really need is things like https://www.palnet.io which is like a second layer on STEEM. EIP is the wrong way to go. PALnet which implement many things EIP suggest is the way to go. Don't change STEEM, Build different platforms with their own token using https://steem-engine.com or SMTs (when they get released)
Makes sense! I think that is indeed a better option
Being a good actor should be incentivized and without good curation content creation suffers directly, by making it unprofitable to compete with automatic curation and self voting it places weight on otherwise good actors to join or starve.
Do you think that being a good actor and using the stake you hold to distribute rewards based on how much you think any item you consume is worth, is simply pressing an upvote button and the efforts it took to gather that stake could compare to writing a post? Or 10? Or 100?
You assert nonsense, strait up unexplainable nonsense.
The incentive structure of steem is broken.
Do
You
Understand?
The epi is giving stakeholders a viable way to compete and possibly outperform automatic curation and self voting/vote selling and as such is a fairly straightforward solution to aligning the MISALIGNED CURRENT FUCKING INCENTIVE STRUCTURE. Do you think that we would be in this place if content was curated better? This in turn makes it hard for content creators as they barely get anything as it is, both in engagement and organic curation, the vast majority is noise, this is broken, you devalue curation and it costs you. Incentivizing better curation is simply the best thing that we have to try and fix the MISALIGNED CURRENT FUCKING INCENTIVE STRUCTURE.
But it's very very hard for most to grasp this simple solution, and it's directly because they would rather keep 75% of nothing instead trying for 50% of something.
The incentive structure of Steem makes no sense beyond the Witnesses.
Both things can't be done at once.
They also
That doesn't exude confidence in their own product to me. Why would Dapp creators have confidence in Steem?
There are very small curation trails that exist, an even further smaller number of them ACTUALLY MANUALLY CURATE and read the stuff they are upvoting. Curation trails and curating is largely done by auto voting with no one reading anything.
Which goes back to
So the incentive of getting rewards for curation is no reason for readers to hold or buy steem.
Makes sense, especially if you repeat it enough as you're banging your head on a tree.
They want to make organic curation more competitive with bad behaviors such as self voting and vote selling, which makes the pie for content creators very small.
You say that "both can't be done at once", so you assert that "essentially no reason exist for readers to want to buy or hold sp." as if it's half sensible or mildly accurate and cannot happen with favoring holding steem power.
So your so deep into nonsense that you think curation rewards aren't any reason to power up or buy steem, and making it more attractive to hold steem power does not favor content consumers, which is completely circular and predicated entirely on a ridiculous assertion. You can't explain why or how incentivizing good curation isn't any reason to hold sp or buy steem or why you think that making it more attractive to hold steem and power up doesn't favor content consumers, but you can assert it and use one nonsensical thing to put against another nonsensical thing.
Then you try to insinuate that they're scheming in some kind of nefarious way, because more nonsense on top of nonsense will give your nonsense a drop of substance, a drop of weight.
Keep 75% of nothing because that's the best. #no-compromise #instatiswetrust
You're missing the entire point of what I am saying.
with 75/25 split that encourages people to make posts and comments so they can upvote themselves. People who are found to be abusing that upvote mechanic are usually dealt with(with the exception of bidbots). Steemcleaners and other services can easily take out bad actors who are plagiarizing/comment spam/illegal/graphic violent content/etc.
With 50/50 rewards that changes completely. Why put the effort into writing a post or comment when you can just upvote ANYONE or ANYTHING for the same reward? because the reward being 50/50 now places equal weight on upvoting as it does posts and comments. People can buy into Steem and just upvote spam. You can't exactly cancel that out unless you downvote everything that person is upvoting(which would likely cause more chaos and poisonous behaviours).
The incentive SHOULD be to buy lets say "100 Steempower"so that you can play games on Steem and post/comment. That incentive will largely work and be ok long term. 100 SP is a good number right now to have as you can make multiple posts and a decent number of comments + some gaming.
Going to 50/50 changes the incentive to buy steem so you can upvote ANYTHING or ANYONE despite quality. Adding more rewards to stake holders doesn't randomly improve curation trails or curation quality, for improving quality and curation there would need to be a system like witnesses where people vote on curators or something.
You are arguing that giving more quantity improves quality from what I understand, that will not happen that way.
!dramatoken
Hi Baah... Hope all is well.
You've got
DRAMA!To view or trade
DRAMAgo to steem-engine.com.How about you grasp that whales extract ~90% of the rewards. EIP will deliver to them ~40% of the remainder, that is presently shared amongst the creators. @steem is powering down millions of Steem. Can't sell it before the price crashes until it's powered down.
Content is the marketing department for the Steem business, as well as the product it manufactures. It's how value is added to Steem, and the fact that almost all that value is extracted by profiteers before the investment vehicle, Steem, gains it is why Steem's retention rate is ~7.5%, the worst in social media. It's why Steem price will not rise, and is about to crash, and why Steem's market cap has declined from the mid-30s two years ago to the mid-60s today.
Investors will not invest in Steem until investment is able to instill value in the investment vehicle, and EIP just further increases the drain of that value from Steem by profiteers. After the price crashes, the bidbots and whales will sell for whatever they can get for it, and move on.
Enjoy the fruits of your desires. You were not careful what you wished for, and now you're going to receive it.
add that to the Steem, Inc accounts, powering down
all signs we are moving in wrong direction
Prove it. Show me where 90% of the rewards are extracted.
Explain yourself. Why does the proposal deliver to them 40% of the 10% left?
Fucktards. Idiots. Imbecilic nonthought. Assert nonsense repeatedly, make up lies and avoid explaining yourself at all.
"this is why, that is why"
One conjecture on another from one nonsensical assertion to the next.
Posted using Partiko Android
It's kind of amusing that you resort to ad hominem's directed at people that understand things you can not. You're not blocked. I just don't bother to respond to your florid psychosis most of the time. When I do it's (usually) because you almost made sense, and may have confused folks, so I try to bring reason to the table.
While it's amusing, your incessant resort to insulting what you can't understand won't bring you understanding. Sadly, I've seen that being reasonable doesn't bring you understanding either. Keep on being amusing. At least you have that.
I'm not going to dig up the research I've done on where the money goes. If you really wanted to know the facts, and were capable of grasping them, you've been here long enough to become acquainted with them. If I do provide them, all you'll do is resort to more irascible insults and claim I'm not making any sense.
To you.
Have a nice day.
It's OK, it's not as if you ever brought the facts. BTW, speaking about ad hominems, when I called your nonsense, nonsense you accused me of attacking your character. I literally challenged you to explain why anyone would power up under your nonsensical proposals and you refused to do so every time. You continued to propose that same nonsense to numerous people, some who pointed out the nonsense /aka fatal flaws, but that didn't stop you from browbeating the idea that essentially everyone is a moron when it comes to "investing", everyone but the whollle molle you.
BTW, if my claim that it's nonsense isn't true it should be very easy to demonstrate that. What's that? You don't have to defend nonsensical claims which are explained why and how they are nonsensical? Figures, more convenient excuses,much like "no investment sense".
Close it with your prophetich asshatery of I told you so.
Fuck you.
Posted using Partiko Android
Here's your
DRAMA. Don't spend it all in one place!To view or trade
DRAMAgo to steem-engine.com.This platform which I loved so much in the first year of joining is slowly seeming to lose all that made it great. I still love it for blogging and reading the articles of friends on here.
Will continue to do so too.
Exactly. I still feel the same way in that regard. Just that I am selling off my personal SteemPower(5,000 SP or so). I think Steem is not going to perform as well as ETH/BTC/BCH/OMG/XMR and other coins that have a lot going for them.