SBDs Are Not A Part Of The Pay Out Equation

in #steemit6 years ago (edited)


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STEEM And SP Split

I have not seen a post about this yet (again, doesn't mean there aren't any), so I thought I would mention that I noticed earlier today that the payouts are no longer including SBD in the more recent STEEM/SBD/SP payout splits if you've chosen SBD/SP as your payment method of choice.

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I'm not sure if it's been going on since late last night, but I first noticed it sometime this morning on a payment for a post. The one depicted above is for a comment.

There has been from time to time a discussion as to when it's smart to go from SBD/SP to pure SP. The answer to date has been, it's mostly smart to go the SBD/SP route. However, it would seem that we're in some automated territory where the payout is generated as STEEM/SP.

I guess someone could still wonder, then, if straight SP is the way to go now. My answer to that would be possibly, but unless the computation for STEEM is different than it is for SP (and if so, my question would be why?!), then the only inconvenience of leaving things as a split is you do have to power up the STEEM if you want it to become SP.

In my book, I'm not sure if that's enough reason to do it just in case the SBDs comes back. And I'm okay with the fact I don't have to take my SBD to the internal market or an exchange to get them converted to STEEM. That is, as long as everything is being calculated the way it should.

Glitchy McGlitches

There's been plenty of glitchiness going on lately. I haven't made it over to the Discord channels I'm a part of to see if anyone has accounted for the random errors and stopping of upvoting or commenting that has been occurring, but if someone knows about that don't hesitate to comment on it. I'm kind of hoping it has to do with some prepping needed for a hard fork, or the ongoing testing of Hivemind 1.0, rather than some kind of attack or failing of the UI/system.

The one seems like a purposeful event worthy of patience. The other sounds like something is lacking and does little to engender confidence. I prefer confidence and purposeful tinkering.

Both images above are taken from Steemit. The top one shows my current rewards payout preferences for both posts and comments.

EDIT: Just got SBD on a higher payout, so maybe it's just for the lower payouts? Anyway, it keeps us guessing.

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Once the systems debt level hits 5% then SBD is no longer printed and authors only get liquid STEEM. So really the choice is between 100% SP or 50% Liquid STEEM / 50% SP. I explained this increasing and problematic debt level in detail here Impending STEEM DOLLAR Purge : The #1 Key Indicator To Watch

I've been expecting the system was a risk to hit this 5% level for some time now. SBD is now effectively redundant.

Hey, @buggedout! Good to see you. :) How's it going? Aside from the fact that this isn't the scenario you wanted to see but was essentially saying it would eventually happen.

Effectively redundant? Because STEEM is being printed instead of SBD? I feel like I read that post when it came out (though I can see no evidence of it), but the post is familiar.

I thought I read something a while back where we were in decent shape with the debt ratio. I admit that I'm probably getting things confused. I did end up getting some SBD on a higher paying post after I published this, so I don't know if this STEEM/SP only lasted for a few, or what. I just know I got some SBDs before and after the two I mention here.

SBD was designed to be both a Stable Coin and a Liquid Post Reward for Authors. It hasn't been considered a stable coin for a long time now and if it's not being printed (and issued) as a liquid reward then it's no longer fulfilling ANY of it's intended design. ie - It's redundant. It is now purely a speculators play thing and I'd expect the calls to get rid of it altogether (because it no longer serves a purpose) to get louder.

By my calculations we are right on the 5% debt level so it's possible what you're noticing is slight fluctations either side of 5%. With the dumping going on in the broader crypto market today I'd be surprised if anyone sees any SBD post rewards from here unless we get a market rally or an SBD purge. Neither look that likely in the short term.

Okay, I understand what you're saying now about SBD. I didn't realize there's a wide desire to get rid of SBD, though. Everyone seems to want them (mostly because they've always been worth more than the $1). At any rate, you've got your finger on the pulse better than I do when it comes to all of these market gyrations and the mood of the public, so I defer to you, since you're basically saying this is going to happen and viola, here we are.

Looks like STEEM broke through $1.10 USD and has hit as low as $1.05 something. SBD is still barely above a $1. The other crypto got pounded while I wasn't looking. :)

I noticed the glitchiness yesterday as well. No one had any info about it on Discord that I saw.

I like having a payout that is part liquid and part locked away as SP. what form the liquid portion is in doesn’t bother me. I guess if it were all the same coin then it would make things simpler.

I have noticed the decreasing amounts of SBD in our payouts. This typically happens as the price of Steem drops away.

Well, that matches up exactly with what we're experiencing, since we're currently back down to around $1.10 USD again for STEEM. I keep wondering if the SBD is going to break the $1 USD mark, but I haven't seen it yet. Prices seem to bounce back up before that happens.

And I agree. It's not a bad thing to have part of it liquid, even if you're just going to power it up. I do wonder at the STEEM vs. SP calculation, since they are different. Either the split isn't 50/50 at this point, or the calculation is different between the two because the amounts aren't the same.

I can't remember where I saw it but it's written into the payout calculation that if the price of Steem drops to a certain point then the amount of SBD paid out is reduced and replaced with Steem. So the split won't be 50/50.

Not that it ever was 50/50. The payouts have always been based on SBD being worth $1, so when the price of SBD sits above $1 you're actually getting more SBD than you should. :P

Oh, very true. When I refer to the split, it's more the beginning of the calculation, not the end. At the point where the curation percentage is tallied and removed and before the SP is divided by the STEEM price average.

I don't mind getting more Steem for my efforts.

That seems to be the consensus brewing here, and my thoughts as well. Yesterday after I posted I started receiving payouts with SBD back in the mix, so like buggedout's been saying, I guess we're bouncing around a 5% debt ratio.

At any rate, STEEM/SP is just fine, until it becomes time to do straight up SP, whenever that actually makes sense.

Until then, stay tuned for more limbo.

I will admit I like the low SBD being replaced with Steem. It was a hassle going to the internal market and exchanging it so I could power it up. I really don't understand the reasoning behind the SBD personally, as Steem itself is liquid.

I have noticed the glitches as well, and was growing frustrated. Earlier I ended up logging out, clearing all my temp folders and logging back in and it seemed to help, although maybe it was just they fixed things on this end, lol.

To cater for people who are more familiar with the USD and less familiar with cryptos, it's nice to have a point of reference. One SBD should in theory be roughly equivalent with one USD, and it should be a stable currency. No, any peg will sooner or later be broken. When steem prices are falling, it's needed to print new Steem rather than to print new SBD to keep the SBD from falling below USD 1 in value.

That's a very good point, @tobixen. Thanks for pointing all that out. I know we've been down around the current price for a while, so there must be another trigger, maybe internal, that's finally been reached, since it didn't split this way the last time (a couple of weeks ago maybe?) when STEEM was down around $1.10 USD?

Well, I find it all complicated and thus question the necessity, but every time I do that, someone says it's necessary or the best way to do it. Then I've also read some prominent user saying STEEM isn't the currency, SBD is. So, while I don't really enjoy going to the internal market to convert SBD so I can power up, I get that SBD is supposed to make things more stable, if it stays pegged, or at least as a floating peg. I think. :)

re: glitching

It's been off and on again much more than I've seen it in a while, which is why I'm hoping it's purposeful. So far, no one has mentioned seeing anything about it, so hopefully that means it's someone working under the hood, rather than mounting some kind of random attacks on upvoting and commenting activities.

I thought in previous discussions @glenalbrethsen it was always said that it made sense to keep the split until and if Steem dropped below one dollar.

I could be remembering that wrongly though. 😊

Well, there's that, and there's the price ratio between SBD and STEEM, too.

In this case, though, with STEEM payout rather than SBD, apparently the prices have fallen now to the point where the system feels there needs to be more STEEM printed, so we're seeing it instead of SBD as part of our split. I think we're still okay, as long as SBD remains above a dollar and STEEM doesn't run away.

I am not an expert, though. I just know what I read and use it and observation to draw conclusions. I'm not changing my payouts yet.

I'm not changing my payouts yet.

Me neither @glenalbrethsen. And, I'm sure, if the time comes when it makes sense to do so there will be a plethora of posts telling us to do just that. 😂

Hi there @glenalbrethsen haven gone for any payouts yet but this was helpful, one for the future may be :)

I'm not 100% sure, but it seems to me I used to get more SBD than steem, Then they added in SP to the mix, and I still got more SBD than steem/SP it seemed. I could be wrong. But now, yes less SBP, the SBD price is getting closet to a 1 to 1 ratio with Steem, so maybe the balance thing they were trying for SBD/Steem is taking effect. A few minutes ago SBD price was $1.050094 and steem was $1.050000 a Spread of 0.009% . I have no clue if that is the reason for less SBD and more Steem or not, but for me more Steem is nicer.

The way buggedout has explained it, the SBD not being a part of payout is based on a 5% debt ratio that SBD has been approaching. When it hits it, the printing of SBD stops, which also includes pay outs. So, if that's true, we could be bouncing up and back from that 5%, since I've actually received SBD in some payouts since I posted.

I personally have no clue, and will take the word of anyone who seems to know what they're talking about. I like the transparency we have with these payouts, but I don't like the math. Plus, when they start throwing in three forms of payout or changing from one to other, I can't keep up with ratios or calculations. If I'm not the only one, then they might as well just hide it, because it still makes me wonder what they're doing.

It's quite possible in your tenure here you've seen all kinds of different combinations. I can't remember when the options for payouts came in, but I don't think it started from the beginning, but were added as the situation to support it arose.

I was getting tired last night, and did not see his replies until after I commented, (I usually read comment first not always), Like you I don't keep track or understand all the inner workings of steem money wise. So I tend to listen to those that do seem to know a little.

In the year I have been here, I have seen a few different payout style's. Some just SBD and Steem. Some more SBD than Steem and some the other way. I think this is the third time I have seen SP in the mix, but never to the extent it has been this go around. Like STINC is sort of pushing the SP option out more so it takes people at least seven days to access it, instead of being able to transfer it right away. But it works for me, as I am trying to build SP, for those that use steem as a supplemental income thing, maybe not to good of an option. 7 days to earn it, 7 days to withdraw it.

I guess I haven't been thinking of SP in terms of needing to liquefy it. And with the SBD or STEEM options, you have a mixture of both to work with. I would need to be making serious STEEM before I could think about taking any out though. Those who are trying to (or succeeding in) living off of their earnings here either have some pretty cheap living conditions, or are making pretty high amounts of STEEM. I'm not in either category right now.

I try to understand. The moment I think I do, there's something else, some other angle to consider. I just don't think the mainstream is going to be thrilled with all the extracurricular hoop jumping and number crunching.

If we ever get to the mainstream, that is.

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