Stopping Spam on Steemit without Hurting Minnows - Equilibrium Scores

in #steemit6 years ago

I've been reflecting on this since reading @dragosroua's post about the upcoming transition from bandwidth to Resource Credits - RCs.

I noticed from reading @flauwy's post on SMT coins available now that SteemHunt had solved their user behavior problem by disincentivizing behavior that would undermine the platoform's ability to be fair (and accurately reflect value contributed).

In their case, the problem behavior to be prevented was voting for one's own product repeatedly. So for them they introduced a Diversity Score which looks at the distribution of votes and multiplies that by your otherwise earned scores, to increase or decrease your earning velocity according to how "pro community" your upvotes are.

I realized that Steemit couldn't imitate the exact same thing, simply because here we've got problems at both ends...

Meaning, we have both spammers who want to comment on lots and lots and lots of posts. And we have selfish whales who only want to upvote themselves or maybe a very small pool of other whales who can upvote them back powerfully. Both are influences that undermine the longterm health of the platform, so we want to discourage (or at least reduce the effectiveness of) both.

Unfortunately, these aren't just two poles on the same spectrum. That would be easy. We could just introduce a sort of Diversity Score that looked for a median instead of high or low rates of board/narrow voting.

But we have ranges to factor in that span both comment activity and upvote activity. We have the broad distribution of comments needing to be discouraged on one spectrum, and a narrow range of upvoting to be discouraged on another.

So this is a little messy as a solution, but I think still on the right track.

Let's come up with an Equilibrium Score (ES) that factors both an idealized mid-range band of activity when it comes to commenting AND a very high score when it comes to the diversity of accounts upvoted. This composite number is then multiplied by SP earned before actual SP is awarded.

Examples

So if you had a lot of comments you left on many different people's posts, say 500 per day, which I just don't believe anyone could read, then you'd have an ES of less than 1 unless you were really upvoting a lot of people. This pretty much rules out spammers, because they comment a lot but upvote very little.

We need to also eliminate giving % of a vote under 100% until your upvote is worth at least a full .02. We just need to make sure that the diversity score number for upvotes that is idealized, is within the reach of a plankton upvoting at 100% 10 times per day. I know the Steemit platform already doesn't allow it until 500 SP, but other STEEM publishing platforms/plugins do, and this introduces a vulnerability for spammers to simply start upvoting everyone they comment spam. So it needs to be prevented at the STEEM level.

As another example, let's say the person comments a reasonable amount, but only ever upvotes 5 people. Well this person would also wind up with an ES of less than 1, and have their SP reduced before being awarded. The amount of the reduction would depend on the severity of the out of equilibrium behavior.

In cases where someone is commenting on lots of people, but also upvoting a very diverse array of people, say splitting their 70 weekly 100% upvotes among more than 50 posters, which still let's them have a handful of people they adore that they are upvoting every single day, this person would not have their SP award reduced by their ES. In fact, depending on how much their commenting and voting promotes equilibrium on the platform, they might even have their SP award increased.

Benefits Above Other Approaches

Other approaches I've read all penalize plankton and minnow. Basically, if you don't have a lot of SP, you are really handicapped in ever getting there.

This isn't about creating quality content. I'm saying that even if you are consistently creating quality content, if you don't have enough SP from the start, you won't be able to differentiate yourself from spammers. So all the "remedies" the platform/coin introduces to try to fight spam, will kneecap you too.

But this equilibrium measure being added in allows a minnow/plankton to differentiate themselves from spammers, and so not be penalized with them. While simultaneously addressing the issue of excessive self/small-circle upvoting by large stakeholders, who really aren't reading and/or commenting on the platform.

What Do You Think?

Would you support the introduction of Equilibrium Scores?

Anyway, these are my random thoughts. I don't know how the code behind this blockchain works, so don't know if this is feasible. I also might have a flaw in my logic, which if you see, please let me know.

However perfect or imperfect this attempt may be, I do think we need to start thinking in terms of new metrics that can be introduced that give us the data we need to make Steemit a little spot of fairness within an unfair world.

stormtrooper-1351022_1280.jpg
(Photo Source: Pixabay)

Resteems always appreciated

Sort:  

This is all way above my steemit pay grade lol, but I'm glad people are introducing new ideas in attempt to improve the platform. I recognize a lot of deficiencies as a new user, but I haven't done enough research into how the platform operates to provide an opinion at this point.

Yeah, I checked in with a friend who's a witness and he said they'd discussed this idea a few times before, but each time not gone forward with it because those really determined to abuse the system still could by creating lots of accounts. Meanwhile some genuine users might accidentally get caught in the penalties. I still don't see how the latter part occurs, since if genuine behavior is indistinguishable from spam behavior, seems like it is just as deserving of a handicap.

Anyway, I do really believe in this platform and continue to try as best I can to be a part of a way forward for it.

I suck at mathematics, except when I am counting money but we really need a solution to comment and post spammers. No matter how good you write, in 0secs, it will be sunk by spam posts. Only the rich make it easily on steemit.
I saw one that uploaded his picture, upvoted himself and got 5$, made two comments and upvoted them too.
Well, what can i say? its his money, he can do anything with it

I too would not be the one to work out the algorithmic scoring, but I think it is an achievable feat. The problem is simply that it is too hard to stop abuse when someone is using enough different accounts, which is what the bad actors do. So as I reflect more on feedback from more experienced folks on the platform, it seems that all Equilibrium Scores would do would be to reward good behavior and thus make it clear to more people what the platform wants from them.

If you get higher payouts whenever you vote for a wider array of people, that encourages you to actively follow more people instead of just sticking to a handful you know already.

If you get higher payouts when you comment within a mid-range (not too few and not too many) then likewise, you learn to comment within that range of volume.

Again, what constitutes "ideal" here is something that would need to be worked out by those who know how to look at the platform's current metrics then work out the stats, but it is doable.

An interesting proposal, I like reading through these ideas :)

And we have selfish whales who only want to upvote themselves or maybe a very small pool of other whales who can upvote them back powerfully.

This is more than just Whale accounts, we have selfish behavior top to bottom and I think it's due to the size of the votes and visibility of posts that the Whales are generalized in this way.

I like the equilibrium score, but feel it would stand a much better chance as part of an SMT and not on Steemit. The reason being is that the SMT could use an 'Oracle' to get a list of single-person accounts. Here, we have folks splitting their SP around multiple accounts, or using a central SP account to fund their other accounts.

Could the scoring work around this? I'm not sure.

Thanks for the read!

The multiple accounts issue is a problem, particularly since people can create hundreds of them, and you can't expect a real user to being reading, upvoting and commenting on hundreds of people each day. So any reasonable numbers we could come up with for vote distribution wouldn't catch multi-account folks.

What I think it would do, however, is make it more clear to people who are trying to be "good actors" exactly what constitutes such behavior.

As I mentioned to sparrowbernard, if you get higher payouts whenever you vote for a wider array of people, that encourages you to actively follow more people instead of just sticking to a handful you know already.

If you get higher payouts when you comment within a mid-range (not too few and not too many) then likewise, you learn to comment within that range of volume.

Even if we don't catch the bad guys, is it not worth it to train the good guys by way of the right incentives?

"We need to also eliminate giving % of a vote under 100% until your upvote is worth at least a full .02."

This single rule would disallow me from following every single curation trail I currently follow.

I feel that I can do far more good on Steemit by upvoting via SteemAuto, thus spreading out my votes to more people; even though it won't give them any actual money, it will at least give them encouragement, and let them know that I value their content.

Encouragement counts, when a post you've worked your heart out on for hours pays out at a whopping .37, and it might even help to retain users.

If I am strictly limited to making 10 upvotes daily at 100%, each currently worth .01 with STEEM prices down, who is it really helping? Not, me, and not the people I follow.

As long as Steemit rewards are at least partially based upon the sheer number of votes, not just their monetary value, I consider this rule to be unworkable, and completely unfair to minnows, both on the giving and receiving ends.

Similarly, encouraging or penalizing users strictly based upon the number of their comments, regardless of the actual content of the comments, is also inherently unfair.

Sure, I'd love an algorithm that eliminates all the spam comments, as they make slogging through to respond to real comments made on my posts more of a chore than it needs to be.

But until there is a reliable way to digitally separate real, substantive comments from the spam, this is another solution that may turn out to be more curse than blessing in the long run, and may penalize Steemians who are actually active in real engagement.

Yes, I agree that it is important to address these issues, and I'm the first to admit that I have no ready answers. But more limitations on upvoting and comments, without addressing actual content, seems to me to be heading in the wrong direction. My two cents.

Thanks for opening up this dialogue. I am confident that, with real substantive discourse, we can resolve these issues as a community.

I appreciate your line of thought. I personally would rather people give me money than encouragement though. I would rather be one of the 10 people per day you give a penny than one of 100 you give only encouragement 😀

We are each called in different ways, which is part of the diversity that strengthens us.

If everyone was after the same thing, it would be harder for everyone to thrive, so having differing goals is a good thing in the long run. ;-)

Congratulations! This post has been upvoted from the communal account, @minnowsupport, by IndigoOcean from the Minnow Support Project. It's a witness project run by aggroed, ausbitbank, teamsteem, theprophet0, someguy123, neoxian, followbtcnews, and netuoso. The goal is to help Steemit grow by supporting Minnows. Please find us at the Peace, Abundance, and Liberty Network (PALnet) Discord Channel. It's a completely public and open space to all members of the Steemit community who voluntarily choose to be there.

If you would like to delegate to the Minnow Support Project you can do so by clicking on the following links: 50SP, 100SP, 250SP, 500SP, 1000SP, 5000SP.
Be sure to leave at least 50SP undelegated on your account.

To listen to the audio version of this article click on the play image.

Brought to you by @tts. If you find it useful please consider upvoting this reply.

You got a 27.82% upvote from @ocdb courtesy of @indigoocean!

YOU JUST GOT UPVOTED

Congratulations,
you just received a 23.89% upvote from @steemhq - Community Bot!

Wanna join and receive free upvotes yourself?
Vote for steemhq.witness on Steemit or directly on SteemConnect and join the Community Witness.

This service was brought to you by SteemHQ.com

Coin Marketplace

STEEM 0.34
TRX 0.11
JST 0.034
BTC 66361.53
ETH 3253.14
USDT 1.00
SBD 4.43