Tournament Creators, the Future of Steem Monsters is in your hands

in #steemmonsters5 years ago

At this I am penning this piece, there has been been a total of 138 Tournaments completed using the Steem Monsters automated system, and for the most part the feedback has been pretty positive (after a few early tweaks), but in reviewing some data around these tournaments, there seems to be a somewhat worrying trend.

Of 138 Tournaments, we only have 148 unique players that have finished in the Top 3 of a tournament. So that's 414 placings, shared by just 148 different players, and when we drill down even further, we have the top 10 players, accounting for 127 of these top placings (30.7% of top 3 placings, shared by just 10 players). How does the top 5 look? 80 out of those 414 placings (19.3%) Then there's the master - @bji1203 who is dominating, accounting for a massive 32 of those top 3 placings (7.7%), of which 21 are Tournament Wins. Now I've only examined the Top 3 placings for these tournaments, and these top players have finished lower down in the prizemoney in plenty of other Tournaments too.

Now there is absolutely no disrespect intended to these players, they are entering the tournaments and winning them fair and square, (though I'm not convinced some of these big guns need to be entering the Novice and Bronze tournaments), but what it does, is takes away the incentive to enter. What's the point of entering a tournament that you can immediately see you have no chance of finishing with a prize?

The average Prize Depth of these tournaments is prizes paid to 10.87 players per tournament (which if we remove a couple of outliers in the form of @peakmonsters tournaments where everyone wins, and to be fair a test tournament by @jarunik which offered no prizes, that average drops to under 9.5.

Now looking at the number of entrants in these events, the average is 54.19, so on average, around 20% of entrants get paid, doesn't sound unreasonable, or does it?

Unsurprisingly the early tournaments attracted more entrants (the first 10 tournments averaged 99 entrants (and paid to an average depth of 13.8 players), whilst the most recent 10 (excluding Peakmonsters Everyone Wins event today with 107 entrants and prizes) is 47.4 entrants (paying just 7.9 entrants).

So what's the solution? We don't need to go for HUGE prizes, but if the prize pool runs deep, then it will attract more players, more hype, players get more experience then find themselves actually able to compete with @bji1203, @taug, @masterthematrix, @hossainbd and others and eventually the game grows. Players that are winning will feel more inclined to invest in strengthening their decks.

So how about it Tournament Hosts? Sometimes deeper is better than bigger.

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A solution would be to only allow novice accounts on the ranked leader board to enter novice tournaments.

You'd have to have something in place to stop multi accounting, but this would at least distribute the prizes over a greater number of accounts.

Posted using Partiko Android

I think that would be a starting point, but without deeper tournaments, the disenchantment just moves to the Bronze category when they come up against the big guns.

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I couldn't agree more. I wish I had the funds to do such an 'Everybody Wins' tournament like we've seen a couple of times. Payouts have to go way deeper than just the top 5, or even 10 or 12 (which is not logical, btw, since the bracket is built 2 - 4 - 8 - 16 - 32, so why would you only reward the top 10, while there are 16 players who make it to the same round.)

Also, those legendary summoners indeed don't belong in a novice tournament, maybe bronze too. They are too OP and too expensive and they unbalance the game even more. Unfortunately - as I've learned from a post I made earlier this week- it's only a minority who thinks like this.

They've now implemented the 'no legendaries' - feature, which I hope is a first step towards a 'no legendary summoners' feature.

I do wonder where you get those stats. I'd love to see those...

I'm not even of the belief that prizes need to be particularly big. Small rewards can be just as satisfying.

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I've been thinking about setting up a tournament myself - no legendaries, novice or bronze. I wish it was possible to create one that would be invitation only, so I could make sure that smaller players have a chance by banning the people that are dominating the tournaments. Even if it would be only a one time thing, I think it is important to give others a chance to get the feeling of accomplishment of not being beaten by the big hitters in the 1st or second round. (Although this means I'm excluded too. Last time I checked, I wqs in20 th place of tournament winners.

I will need to find a way to get the funds together, however. Still trying to come up with a way to do that...

I'm planning on running a "money where your mouth is" tournament soon. Just need to get it set up and decide how much I can afford to throw into a prize pool.

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Maybe we could consider combining forces, so we couls splt the costs...

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Aggroed just posted this new feature for Tournaments "No legendary Cards" so this is great for Novice and Bronze League Tournaments.
Screenshot (152).png

Something has to change. I never got into tournaments....because im no good at them.😁 But those numbers above speak a lot of truth. Thanks be not only taking the time to figure them out, but also for publidhing them. I hope your weekend was great my friend!

I think as more tournaments get created, hopefully we start to see a shift.

Posted using Partiko Android

I agree a wider distribution of the prizes. Question is, how deep is enough? I propose top 20 pays gets paid?
I would the liquid SBD from a post that promotes your tournament to help raise additional funds.

On the subject of taking down the maxed teams, if one cannot buy all the cards, the one should team with trusted friends and merge cards. That will be quiet a challenge, but it will work if done correctly.

I would suggest paying out either top 16 or top 32 (preferably top 32 or even 64, but that requires quite some funds), because that's how the bracket is built. It makes little sense to me to pay out top 12 or top 20 when there are 16 players that make it to the same round. It happened that I missed out on the prizes, simply because I didn't play the qualifier round...

I know the feeling well of barely missing the bottom prizes.
I think 25 is a good number to try out.

I think @simplymike is right, it needs to be a multiplier of 4, to ensure it's all competitors that make a specific round get a prize.

Posted using Partiko Android

Ah, I see. Good point.

It makes no sense that the people who play the qualifier round have 2 more points than the people who don't. That's not fair ... if 8 people reach the quarter final, but the people who have played the qualifier round have more points, because they fought an extra battle...

I'd love to do a tourney - no legendaries, novice or bronze league - that would work by private invitation only, so we can exclude the big hitters. If some of the smaller /less experienced accounts don't get a fair chance to rank high in a toutnament every once in a while, they will stop entering.

Now allI need is to figure out a idea to raise some money so we can payout a lot of players...

This is the exact reason why I enter in the final 15 minutes of a tournament. This could have a negative affect though, where I might be knocked out first round by a really strong player.

I know @sparkesy43 is current raising funds for a “deep” prize pool tourney. Maybe you both can join forces?

Having no Legendaries would be a very different game play, but everything is worth a shot.

Before @heyimsnuffles figured out how the bracket was built, I always signed up very early. That has changed, and I like to keep my eye on the players' list to decide when to sign up. I don't have a problem risking having to fight an extra battle in bronze or silver league tournaments, but gold... If it's a rather small tournament, I still prefer to go on to the next round without having to play.

I don't really like the idea of not being able to use legendary cards - I adore my legendaries - but it is the only way to set up a tournament and level the playing field for everyone by filtering out those legendary summoners. Don't get me wrong, I do own some - maxed or at level 3 - and I love playing them, because they give me a shot against people I wouldn't be able to beat otherwise, but I'm willing to give in because I want the smaller players to have a shot too.

I had picked up that @sparkesy43 was planning to host a tournament with a deep prize pool, but I had missed the fundraising post he published two days ago. Just replied, proposing we could indeed join forces. Thanks for the heads up, @mellofello!

I don't know how deep is deep enough, I guess it would depend on how many entrants you get. Personally I'd like to see about half the entrants get something, but of course you can't know how many will enter before you create the tournament so you have to guess.

I don't know that additional funds are needed, just a broader distribution of the same original prize pool

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It would be a guess. If I think you will get 50 plays and to set it to auto pay the top 25, but only 25 players join, then that would be a happy day for everyone. I guess that won't be so bad, right?

This would work if I can set it to pay top 50% of contestants, but I don't think that feature is available.

Exactly, the facility isn't there to pay a percentage of entrants (particularly as the final number can fluctuate between those who enter, and those who actually check in to battle), but your example is perfect. Estimate how many entries you think you'll get, then work out your prize depth accordingly. When I get back from my weekend away I'll crunch some numbers and see if I can put together a tournament of my own.

Thanks for the good data and ideas. I agree that we as big players shouldn't be around the Novice and Bronze League Tournaments and I think a solution will come in the next weeks. Aggi and yaba are aware of the situation and probably diamond and Champion players won't be able to access the lower tournaments in the future. I don't mind just playing from silver or gold Tournaments up to Champion.
In regards to the win chances in a Tournamnet you really need to be a good player who knows how to build great teams.
Since a week people where complaining about the legendary summoners im small tournaments and now players slowly realize that there are good and easy counter teams for the legendary summoners. You wanna beat Prince Reynin great than go for a fast fire team and with sneak you might have a good chance against him.
I'm just saying this game goes really deep with gameplay which is good and keeps everybody aware and active to stay competitive.
There are many "new" players like @pkocjan @sharkmonsters @holger80... who really stepped up their game and became great players.
The level of skilled players will only grow over time and for me to stay on top becomes harder with ecery new season. Thats the beauty about SM and Proof of Game.

Posted using Partiko Android

I feel like the limitations set by the novice and bronze leagues do level the playing field in tournaments a little, but there is no denying that some of the very best players know something about strategy that the rest of us don’t. Also, the best players have a much larger assortment of cards, limited or not.

That said, I struggle in the lower leagues. I just lost another Silver League tournament, and I think it’s because I am used to relying on abilities that my higher level cards now have which were not available when I was back in Silver League. I don’t assume I’ll win in the lower league matches anymore. 😜

Thanks for mentioning me, though. I’m very happy to have made it to Champion II this season so far. That’s been a goal of mine for probably the last four seasons.

I am still learning how to form my best strategies. I still lose most of the matches I play against the champions. I definitely need more of those legendary summoners.

I can asure you that there are no secret strategies it really comes down to of how many battles you already watched and where willing to learn from them.
In lower leagues the legendary summoners do have an advantage but all those teams can be beat with the regular summoners as well. If my opponent knows that masterthematrix is a champion player and he probably will use the Prince Reynin against me...if you have that impression why not counter me with a fast fire team? Yeah thats the secret sauce to be willing to find the solution...and portion of luck is also involved.
Anyways I'm looking forward to the exponantial growth of the learning curve of all players. It becomes woth every season harder to compete against the same players.
I agree though that a steady re-Investment in your deck is necessary to keep up with the game.

Posted using Partiko Android

Well, the top couple of players seem like they’re always the top, and can maintain their ratings while playing a fraction of the battles I play. That’s what I meant by some people clearly understand the game better than others do. They can even win every tournament they enter, even with the limitations we were talking about.

I hope to get there! I do try to look at a bunch of stuff when making my decisions, including my opponents battle chain on Peak Monsters. I see what they tend to play when faced with certain mana caps and rules, and I try to find cards in my deck that can compete.

Sometimes I just look back at how people beat me, and I try similar strategies to what they did.

Thanks for sharing your views. From what I can see, it's experience as much as a strong deck that helps win tournaments at the lower levels, but the motivation to gain that experience can disappear mighty quickly when you're consistently being knocked out early. Deeper paying tournaments will help maintain that motivation, even it's just a very minor prize, it still gives a sense of accomplishment.

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Certainly did not mean to post this multiple times.

the eSteem app kept giving me error messages. I'm glad I checked before I just kept trying. That app is buggy AF. :)

see the above comment. :)

Not so new ;) Thanks for appreciating my game :D

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