Predicting the price of Bitcoin

in #bitcoin5 years ago

I'm an investor, not a speculator. Why is this important?

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The famous Warren Buffet was quoted explaining it this way.... "When I buy a stock, I don't care if they close the stock market tomorrow for a couple of years because I'm looking to the business — Coca-Cola, or whatever it may be — to produce returns for me in the future from the business.".

The changing value system

We live in a world of physical and virtual/digital products. It used to be that only physical products (those that you could touch or that a human was providing a service for) represented anything of value. That has changed a lot since the Internet came about. I've been fascinated with this transition because it is a cultural change in how people place value on things.

I found this dynamic in the world of Internet domains and domain brokers. When the Internet first came out, everyone was scurrying around to register domain names. The value of owning a small world + .com on the end of it represented a quick way to make a quick buck. If you had registered "music.com" for example, then you would likely be worth a lot of money. Quickly there was a land grab for domain names, and people (for a short period of time) made a lot of money by selling the domain to the highest bidder. Now that there are more commonly accepted alternatives to .com out there, it is not as critical, but back then it was super critical to have a value domain name. This was an example of the marketplace putting a high value on a digital product.

Another example emerged with the massively multi-player online role playing game (MMORPG) world. In these virtual worlds, players would spend thousands of hours of their time building up the power of their characters so they could take on more and more challenging quests in these virtual worlds. The value of time to build up a character resulted in companies "farming" characters, equipment, weapons, armor, etc. and then selling them for real money. This economy changed the dynamic of the game manufacturers who quickly found out that there was more money to be made in the economy of selling equipment and upgrades than actual subscriptions to play the game. Many went free to play and then made their money inside the virtual game. Again, another example of where the marketplace put a value on the digital product.

So in a world where BOTH physical and digital products now are agreed to have value, why is there so much confusion on what that value is?

The Bitcoin dilemma

Since the invention of crypto-currencies, in particular Bitcoin, we have seen a 10 year long quest for determining the true value of a Bitcoin. We've seen it go from less than $1 to almost $20,000 and swing up and down within those extremes. It seems everywhere you look, you find someone who is willing to tell you what the value of it is and where its price is going.

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If you bet on it going up, and bought in low (as I did), you made out very well. But if you did this in reverse, following the trend and fear of missing out (FOMO), then you probably lost your shirt. This is not a world for the faint hearted.

But the thing that is of great interest to me is that when we early adopters got into Bitcoin, it wasn't because we predicted some massive future price. It was because there was utility to the product. Bitcoin had a purpose. And we voted with our fiat money in that purpose.

What was the purpose? There are multiple facets to that, but for me it was simple.... I needed a way to pay my subcontractors who were working on software development projects, but were in countries that I couldn't send them money by PayPal. It seems that many countries in the world don't have reciprocal banking agreements with the USA, and the only way to send money to a person is to wire it to a bank account (very expensive) or use Western Union (also very expensive and slow). When you need to pay your worker or he/she won't keep working for you, then finding a way that isn't a burden is key. Bitcoin solved that problem because it didn't require a middle-man in the transaction. It was instant, peer to peer, and cheap. As long as the receiver could convert the BTC into something they could spend, it worked just great.

Today the price of Bitcoin has dropped to about 25% of its price at the highest (so far). These massive swings have freaked out people and turned an avid Bitcoin maximalist into a wimpy, crying child. Those that got REKT will probably never return to crypto-currencies. Or do it with the bruises of past losses. Those that were very early adopters probably sold at the highs and are laughing all the way to financial independence.

But the issue still remains - Bitcoin serves a really good purpose as a medium of exchange, just as it did in 2011 when I got into it. And today it is even better because now there is infrastructure built that wasn't there before. Today we have a larger number of exchanges to use to buy and sell Bitcoin. We have government agencies well advanced in the world of legislation & taxation, so that it isn't as scary to get into it now. And we have all the side chain technologies like Segregated Witness and Lightning Network coming together to allow BTC transactions to be as voluminous as VISA & Mastercard is. Today, we are far more likely to be able to compete with the existing exchange services out there.

This has helped drive down the price of exchanges to compete. Along with banks developing strategies to either combat crypto-currencies or become crypto-currencies. Today I rarely have to explain Bitcoin to friends & family because they probably learned it from watching the TV news, CNBC or Bloomberg. Maybe some of them even bought & sold some.

So back to Investor vs. speculator

I opened this article with the definition of someone who invests in a business for the long term because they believe in the fundamentals of the business, vs. someone who is simply looking to make money on the ups and down of a marketplace valuation.

To be honest, I find speculators to be disgusting. They are leeches on the creative zeal that is behind the product they are trying to manipulate the price on. They have no allegiance to the product itself, its purpose or its mission. They only want to make a buck on the up and down price. Unfortunately in the world of crypto currency, there are far too many speculators out there because this is complex and hard science, and most speculators accepted that they don't understand the fundamentals of what they are investing in, but they hope for some quick buck gain or short sell that will make them wealthy. This, IMHO, doesn't contribute to an abundance in an economy. Leeches create nothing and contribute little to the eco-system.

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Investors tend to be wealthier in the long run because their faith and commitment to an ideology means they have patience for a long term ride. That said, it makes no sense to hold onto something that is going down like a sinking ship. But if you understand the fundamentals of something, then a low price signals a buy opportunity rather than a bounty of pain.

What if you could invest in a technology where there was an existing infrastructure and economy already in place? And that this economy solves the problem of paying for goods & services, whether physical or digital, in the digital realm of the Internet? And what if this technology is a better payment solution for emerging digital products that are ever increasing in our world? And what if this technology didn't have a central bank that controlled it, but it was purely peer to peer and that it could scale to allow everyone in the world to use it quickly and inexpensively? And what if there was little theft out there because an immutable record of every transaction, every currency instance, etc. was created and validated for each transaction?

Holy cow! If someone came to me with that business plan, I'm all in. That is the business plan of Bitcoin. A plan that only investors will understand and embrace. Speculators can (and should) go away quickly. We don't need or want you in the Bitcoin eco-system. You add nothing to this and just leech the ups and downs of price. But since there are so many of them out there, they are controlling the conversation about Bitcoin.

I'm here to tell you that they will run away and go chasing the next shiny light out there. What is left? A damn good product. A product worthy of investors. Those that will enjoy the long term rewards of buying it at a low price.

What about other crypto-currencies like Steem?

I get asked this a lot. Apply the investor filter to it, and you can answer this for yourself. Does this product have a purpose and a future? Is it redundant? Is it delivering something that will be popular 5 or 10 years from now? Is it a fad or a real thing that will have real efficacy? Does it serve people well and is it something that can withstand competition?

If you are asking these questions, you are looking at things like Warren Buffet does. Like an investor does. If you are just interested in whether the price will go up or down, then you are a speculator and you need to go away. Don't expect me to give you the courtesy of a decent answer if you are coming to me to find out if you should "speculate" on something. If you ask me if you should "invest" in something, then I'm more likely to have a conversation with you about it, but if you don't understand the difference between investing and speculation, and you are not willing to do your own research, then I have no time for you. Sorry.

We live in a fast changing world. A world where the rules of the future are being created each day. Where vision to do things that were never thought of or done before are now routine. Where planning a trip to another planet might be within the reach of the average Joe. Who would have every expected that? Where cars drive themselves. Where machines augment our lives everywhere. We are robot assisted today and most of the time we don't even realize it. In this world, the rules are being re-written all the time. The value we place on things change with the dynamics of change and the prediction of the future becomes far more difficult. Wall Street now sees more of a net effect when a stock like Apple or Facebook or Amazon have either an up or down movement, rather than the traditional old blue chip stocks like GE, Ford, Caterpillar, Heinz, etc. have. This tells you that the future is about prediction of where life and culture will be.

For me, there are no better indicators of the value of Bitcoin than a faith based investment in where the future is going. When the existing banking cartels are out there smearing the speculation price of BTC as some signal that Bitcoin is dead, I really have as much time for them as I do for any speculator who is leeching the good work of the digital economy.

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I think you are making the mistake of associating timing one's investment or buy-ins with speculating.

Warren Buffet still waits for a good price before he buys into companies. He determines a value and then only buys when the stock or asset trades below that value.

So timing is still important @beunconstrained.

If you are only buying Bitcoin based on the 'fundamentals' without determining the VALUE (i.e. market cap) of those fundamentals, you may be investing in a cryptocurrency that has good fundamentals but is over-valued (i.e. Bitcoin).

I don't think that is the type of investing that Warren Buffet does.


Timing is important and I think it's best to invest when a cryptocurrency's market cap is undervalued.

I'll give you the importance of timing. I just hope that speculators don't control the conversation here and make us all forget why we got into this game changing technology in the first place.

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In case you didn't know, there are close to 50,000 active accounts on the Steem blockchain each and everyday @beunconstrained.

I haven't looked into the other sites you mentioned earlier but I doubt they have anything close to that.

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The fact that @steemit was able to onboard this many users with an average wait time of 2 weeks for account activation is impressive.

And I don't agree with your analysis when you say there isn't any value in the Steem blockchain. @ned is definitely using his talk about Destiny to increase the confidence of Steem stakeholders but I also think it is more than just talk.

I see the next 3 to 12 months as a great buying opportunity (not investment advice) and I think Steem will be undervalued once it falls below a $50 million market cap.

That's based on my experience trading pennystocks with much less actuality to their story than Steem.

I don't know how bad things will get for Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general but they might get beatup pretty bad. I am not basing that on technical analysis but on the presence of positive speculation.

Usually hope is exausted after such a huge spike before the next bull run and I haven't seen that happen yet.


I also think you are still underestimating the value of timing @beunconstrained.

Believing in the fundamentals is not good enough. You must determine the value in terms of market cap for those fundamentals and then only invest when the market cap falls below that.

That is value investing - Everything else is speculation @beunconstrained.

I am not sure about this but I think they'll manage to get through this @beunconstrained.

This doesn't change any of my forecasts since I half expected more bad news before good news, not only for Steem but for all cryptocurrencies.

The goal should probably be for @steemit to generate revenue (fiat) outside of their Steem holdings, and advertisements on the Trending page has been recommended by the community.

I am buying a little bit every month and expect to be able to purchase Steem close to the next bottom. It's high risk but it is my only high risk investment (or speculation if you want to call it that) and I still think the risk vs. reward is worth it, so long as I scatter out my purchases in small amounts over a long period of time.

I think you have a good idea that they should generate revenue like any business to show a profit, before relying on their valuations and coin speculation as their only means of income. I think you are onto something there. Clearly they can't survive at this level. Interesting comments on the Voskcoin YouTube channel today about this:

It looks like the pinned comment on that YouTube video was posted by you @beunconstrained I am not sure but it really seems like it.


Even if @steemit goes dark, @steem the blockchain would remain. The price of Steem would fall significantly, and if it ever managed to recover, the people who bought at the all-time lows or new lows would do well.


I also think that some of the Dapps that supply their own nodes would survive and @ned could create a splash page on the @steemit domain name directing to the live Dapps until Steemit could be brought online again.

As much as you dislike @steemmonsters, I suspect that they would survive and maybe even continue to do well. Hopefully @aggroed will post a response to @ned's announcement.


I'm still happy with the performance of Steem and the Steemit team but that is mainly due to my moderate expectations.

It's not easy to do what they are doing and I think they have still accomplished a lot. They couldn't focus on the things you wanted due to their focus on more critical things for the blockchain like Hardfork 20.


P.S. I started to doubt that Bitcoin and Steem would crash a few days before they did, but before that, I had been expecting a crash of this scale. I didn't know what the bad news would actually be but I suspected that there would be some sort of breaking news that would reverse market sentiment.

Yep that is my comment. I did not expect Vosck to pin it but if you read the responses to it, it seems a widely held and accepted view. I will not be posting here as actively. The community is not being realistic with addressing what is needed to advance this technology and I don't invest time and money into anything that does not adjust itself to prevailing winds. I had hope but that is not enough in business. I wish you well and God speed. The money is not important to me. It is the tech that I'm interested in and clearly there are issues. I'll wait until that is addressed before investing further here.

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I never enjoyed watching videos on YouTube - I was a producer with @emaferice, not a consumer. But now I am finding myself enjoy videos from people like @kenmelendez & @freedompoint.

The fact that Steem was able to turn me into a video consumer proves that this is game changing technology. I never would have thought I'd be watching other people's videos but here I am.

Everyday I wake up and check my feed for content from @kenmelendez, @freedompoint or people like @helenoftroy and @gadrian I remember why I am here.

Make sure YOU remember why you're here @beunconstrained.

I think we are here for very different reasons. I'm not here for any hopeful basis on price and trading of Steem. Personally I couldn't care less about it's price, or its adoption. What I care about is that this is a platform where I can blog and I won't be censored. That's priority #1 for me. I will do the same on my own website in 2019, and I can monetize that with Adwords, etc. and probably make 1000x more money doing that than here. But again, I don't need the money - I already have the money. I need exposure. If this provides a way to get it, great. But you know I'm not a long term believer here yet, and you probably won't change my mind on that. Until this platform matures, it isn't an option for those trying to be content creators (I'm talking those trying to truly compete with the YouTube creators). When YouTube demonetized content, censor creators and reduced earnings, it didn't represent a massive uptick in dTube or Steem content. I cited Jeff Berwick's hesitation to go all in on Steem after he was censored off Facebook. This is because this is low barrier to entry here - there are 7+ billion people on this planet and as more of them get Internet connections, there is a massive amount of low grade content spam here, which keeps the professional content creators away. They would prefer to gain audience on YouTube even though they are not making as much money doing it, because it is about vanity. They want exposure. They can cross post to Steem dApps, but I don't think they will make this their primary platform.

My initial thought was that it could be the primary platform. I still have some reduced expectations that with maturity it might. But I'm not seeing positive signs towards that, and I don't share your optimism based on both adoption rate and price. I do, however, agree with you that there is an enormous opportunity to create an uncensored platform that rewards subscribers and viewership based on quality and not bot fueled upvoting. Maybe they will change the economics and anatomy here to achieve that, and turn this around. There is still time. But I don't see myself posting as actively here if there are other, more suitable, platforms that I can publish to.

So that is why I'm here. I'm not sharing in the "Steem maximalist" vision that you have, and maybe you will be a wealthy man from it. But I am looking to the fundamentals and seeing a very different picture than your charts show. I know you would like me to agree with you on these things, but I can't and you'll have to accept that for what it is and move on.

I don't mind that you disagree with me and I think it's good to clarify our differences.

I am not interested in exposure as I experienced it on YouTube already and it wasn't as pleasant as some might expect.

It was a lot of work, very little downtime and the relationships were more about people following us than about talking to one another and having a good time doing so.

I am more interested in the community side of Steem than the amount of clicks or impressions I can get. Facebook pretty much has that locked in, and once @emaferice and I were getting the impressions that some people seek, it was more commercial and fanbased than down to earth and real.

The community side of Steem can upend the advertisor based model for social networks and make interacting online healthier, friendlier and more enjoyable.

That is why I am here.

I appreciate you enjoying my videos. It is alittle more difficult right nos. With Steem still not really mainstream we are mostly creators creating for other creators. March should be different with SMTs.

Yeah, that's true but before I didn't even consume videos, at all. And now I am so I think that is a great start.

The biggest change will probably come when a Dapp uses search algorithms and recommendations similar to YouTube. I like that @dtube doesn't do that but I also think there should be Dapps that do.

Creating a sister Dapp for @dtube that does that would be a great idea @heimindanger. Then the decentralized version of @dtube could compete with the more centralized sister Dapp version of @dtube. I think it would help everyone!

@steeveapp is starting to do it a little bit and I am finding some good authors that way. Like I said before, I enjoy your videos a lot @freedompoint 😊👍🏼

Thank you 😁

Unfortunately the speculators outnumber the investors by a long shot. As much as they do not help things, they cannot be discounted. We live in an instant society and slow things get left by the way side. Blockchain.com has been desperate to find a replacement for BTC. They tried to salvage it with bitcoin cash and then by adding ETH now they are banking on Stellar. They know BTC is toast so they are milking the transactions on people getting out but also planning for the future with other options. DId you get your Stellar airdrop?

I suspect that over time there will be those that buy btc like they were forex trading euros Vs USD, etc. However unlike currencies btc has other network effect and I suspect that its survival will be tied to what it can additionally offer that just another currency cannot. I do agree with you that the speculators cannot be discounted. However my hope is that they don't control the conversation.

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