Conversations with God - Jordan Peterson God-Whistles The Left to Action

Morality
You only really need to see his first graph really- society pulls back eventually

This graph, from this timestamp. Look at the history of gold too. It matches.

It seems that people's inherent human need to be different is being abused and exploited by corporations just to fill their own pockets. The media is broken as Trump points out.
Does everybody still believe that all people are equal? There seems to be a doubling down of talk that people are not equal. Even though science just finds more evidence that environment has much more influence, even on how genes are expressed. And greater understanding of brain plasticity.
Hypercapitalism seems to be pushing us further from equality because now, even organisations are recognised as human entities. When really, they could be seen as a potentially pathogenic memes that are trying to increase the sentiment that we aren't equal.(edited)
Also those people are the most treacherous to the US constitution which says all men are created equal.
The less workers rights there are, and the more unemployed, the more competition there is for our labour to be outbidded and devalued.(edited)
It seems like we have always needed resistance to stop these memes and the organisations that support them eating themselves up as they are blind to how codependent they are due to the competition mindset.(edited)
Cancer can't see it is cancer and is killing off its host. We are just power dynamics after all.
I would say ideas are not equal.(edited)
Fuck identity politics

Masculinity is helped greatly by controlled strength I think. Rather than reactive. Meditation helps lots for centering yourself when your emotional biology takes over. It also helps, as you say for wisdom, by connecting the dots you wouldn't have otherwise had time to.
According to the gnostics, Jesus was born in shit - and even in a stable, it would make him quite poor. This would have given him that perspective and maybe the epigenetic queue to embody that archetype. of communities helping each other He also went off alone, as a tradesman. He learnt the masculine way of living by his own bootstraps which might have activated the other side (or another side). So he had a unique perspective to speak for both sides.
I seem to have swung a few ties in my own political views as I was brought up on a council estate to poor folk immigrants from Scotland but then made my way up going to uni to having a high paid job in IT. I ended up feeling guilty about leaving my socialist roots…. And I also related to the feminine when I became a single father but as she grew up moved out and needs me less I am seeing my masculine return. But now I seem to have this great ability to see and understand both sides.

Complex systems theories
I've never really looked at them, it is amazing how much they look and behave like us
Meet our closest genetically related cousins; bonobos (pair-bonding and communal), not chimps (tournament and hierarchical).

If you consider the surfer as having knowledge about how the dynamic forces of the collective particles cause wave structures to emerge, he is not the master of the wave, but he has relative freedom from the knowledge of how he expects the forces to play out.
Now consider those surfers as the people who have woken up to the different forces of nature and more importantly society, they benefit by riding the waves of technologies, population booms, culture, wars and famines on the back of the sheep hurds. They are the Libertarians who have maximized their free will in some way.
Other people however, start waves by throwing pebbles or boulders of ideas into the collective. Some gain traction and build up steam and become bull trains. The ones who predict the wave start paddling out for the next ride.
"Continental philosophical tradition" would that include Deleuze ?

But as Peterson rightly points out, financial inequality isn't the only thing that causes violence : https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2017/12/19/the-link-between-polygamy-and-war
So the more scarcity, the more the warrior gene will be activated in the population, increasing the chance or chaos/revolution. Where as when we become socialist OR nationalist/protectionist, it quells it for an even balance of both in the population.(edited)
So I think the banks should start by giving out a universal income to the developing nations. They get more the more they contribute to global causes maybe.
Rather than the right trying to make us in the West more tournament like
The idea I love is that they are hidden in archetypes, myths and stories in the collective unconscious and understood/debated through religion, politics and science.
I'd really like to see a podcast where you videoconference or interview Robert Sapolsky with JBP. If not, could you ask him why he conveniently always chooses tournament species as opposed to pair bonding species when comparing to humans. Rats, Lobsters are examples he uses but he could choose meerkats or elephants for example. https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/5mldx8/humans_are_both_pairbonding_and_tournament_species/
I think these genetic traits and epigenetic activations might have something to do with our rituals, politics and spirituality.
If anything, it seems that Jesus and Buddha seem to be the archetypes that enact our pair bonding traits rather than competitive ones (which must be dormant if we did evolve as a tournament species of ape which looks the most likely)
Whereas religions that allow multiple wives and /or snip off the foreskin try to initiate the competitiveness you'd get in a tournament species
https://hbr.org/2018/08/why-the-u-s-needs-more-worker-owned-companies
Yeah maybe, it will be where greed and necessity align probably

Other tournament species also have a difference in life expectancy:

This is an interesting documentary about the history of Birmingham. It shows how close working class men and women's struggle really is. These plebs from birmingham only got the right to vote just before women. Watch from this timestamp:

This is a point that I worry about the culture wars having an effect on people. There is a phenomenon called the inner judge effect, where indigenous peoples ended up having higher rates of suicide as they felt they were not needed or it was their fault. This applies to both sides.

Ages DO come and go, we cannot resist them. I think many of the predictions of a new age can be boiled down to a greater awareness of each others perspectives because of the internet and the fact that we will reach physical limits to expansionism at some point. Forcing us to become more communal and sharing and direct our need for competition mostly towards ideas, art, technology and experiences that benefit the whole, rather than resource acquisition for a select few.
Yeah the EU seemed too detached from the average person. We never even had letters or information so it felt disconnected and undemocratic. Basically for big change to happen it either needs to be through motivation by greed or fear. Those who are the main motivations for most things.

The message that Positive Money used to promote (which they seem to have backed off from, preferring to tinker round the edges) was that money could be created through Universal Income and government jobs (rather than taxation) instead of it being created as loans - or the quantitative easing which inflates the stock market asset prices but does not come into the real economy. It just paints a false picture of prosperity while industries are dying or being hollowed out and monopolised.
I also agree, there is a big cultural need to reconnect to people again, the nostalgia, myths and spirituality thing fills that void maybe. But yeah, I feel the need to engage in the grassroots economy. Kinda like the moral of Ready Player One, to take it back into the realm of myth
Because really, Amazon killing off our industry into a homogenized mega company kinds starts looking like communism anyway
Back in the 80's and 90's they used to actually have discussion about monetary policy, rather than weather it grew on trees

I'm glad you are both fans of MMT. I think we probable do need to increase and decrease the money supply to match demographics and population. But at the moment new money is created by private banks. It's time we admit to ourselves and politicians to the public, that raising interest rates, raising taxes and/or decreasing spending, essentially reduces the money supply and brings down asset prices contracting the economy in that area. The only argument is about who will pay.
@BenHG I met the founder of Positive Money, Ben Dyson many years ago at a TEDX. He went to work for the Bank of England as a researcher though and is working on digital money and stuff… When the politicians did actually debate the issue you could see how woefully informed they were - or at least how they pretended to be

I say let's take both the blue pill and the red pill at the same time and see what happens. Maybe there really is a spoon, enough to use
@Jack Haze , Yeah, it seems like such a change to the system would be difficult, that's why it might have to be greed that initially sets up the fairer system
@Jack Haze completely agree about the boom-bust cycles, but, too many people benefit from these economic swings. The media even helps pump and dump the assets. Weather that is because the cycles are real because the majority of people are sheep or because of manipulation it's still immoral. Jacob-Rees-Mogg who was an engineer of Brexit, his father co-wrote the book, Blood in the Streets -a guide of how to profit from an economic crash.
It is very dark red-pill knowledge about our shadow - he even explains how a genetically group related selection might lead to hierarchy which kinda explains our world wars. Myths just server to keep this complex knowledge from us I think. And even JBP admits that he thinks the role of psychology is mainly to maintain social order, not uncover facts.
Yeah, torrents and bitcoin - seem to be a mixture of Libertarianism and Socialism - where the individual and the collective freedoms align. More ideas like that is what I want to see
@Jack Haze it's because I believe knowing that we are nature, we can lean a lot about knowing our nature. And how it affects culture. And he goes much deeper than JBP into true human behaviour
Re: cryptocurrency , it is kinda hyper-capitalism based on false scarcity and greater fool theory - but it is also decentralised. So I actually think Bitcoin might be the solution once it settles down and we might be trading in satoshis - they could be divided to mathch about 15 billion people and then stabilize
BitCoin also hyper incentivize computer efficiency/power AND renewable energy due to greed.
Another win-win
Jack Haze06/08/2018
@trevken Answer this question for me., if you would, "your next door neighbor loses his/her job" and is going to lose his.her house. What do you do? Do you wait for him/her to get his house foreclosed by the Bank and buy his/her house at a steal", so you can rent it out and makes money or do you (2) help him/her with an event to raise money or to find a new job, so he can keep his house." capitalism and morality do not go together. the more profit you make, the largert he spread between what you charge (or overcharge people) vs. what you pay for it. AKA the richest people are the ones that take the biggest advantange of their customers.
actually, the type of business I think should be the only ones, can and do have mutually beneficial trade - to answer your question, the answer is you help your friend by buying it cheap if he needs a quick sale but you don't rip him off - do him better than "we buy any house" if you can. You both win. And the rest of society should help him until he has got back on his feet and con contribute again. Win-win again.
It is a mixture of Ayan Rand and Marx
Why the hell can't we take the best from both sides?
Jack Haze06/08/2018
@trevken Love the reasoning / thought process. Given two options, you took C. Well done sir
It's an idea I've been formulating for many years, I'm trying to get the phrase to catch on and we can make it up as we go along
The best ideas I have come up with so far are that there should be a global currency, no tariffs, and universal liberty, with the opportunity to gain wealth that is based on the limits of the planets resources according to the population - Which might mean that money is created according to the amount of people. A bit like a resourced based economy but with maybe a maximum wealth limit based on population. One that considers epigenetics. In areas where there is wealth disparity it triggers parasympathetic system affecting behavious, which limits opportunity in itself.(edited)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4EB33C9129894024
I'd say quite a lot of capitalists are moral already. They will become more moral as they see that their success is based on others success as resources or customers start to dwindle. (The idea that capitalism eats itself if it outcompetes it's own customer)
Hybrid capitalism will be needed then, to keep competition alive
Agree about hashing out morality in a way that satisfies the religious and secularism because even if we unite and can harness (practically) limitless energy, if you think about it it might actually have other unintended consequences like agriculture, industrial revolution, globalisation, AI or automation…. Imagine, will that make human life actually less worth because unlimited energy could outbid human labour
Viewed that way, once there is unlimited energy, capitalism based on scarcity wont work
I think this is why it is really important to consider trying to make algorithms work FOR us rather than letting them propagate memes that just lead us further from the truth. Black holes and echo chambers can be informative, but in the IDW we should be able to zoom back out again with new search terms or ideas…

I think our collective unconscious message from the sages (and our scientists) is that freedom and compassion for the individual should be the same for the collective, because we are all one family. Which means a combination of Liberatianism (individual freedom) and Socialism (collective freedom)/Progressive/Multinationalism, and also Statism/Nationalism/Localism and Conservatism to stay connected to our past roots and local knowledge and speciality.
Radagast396503/08/2018
You might be missing the point trevken. I think these new long forms interviews ARE the IDW
trevken03/08/2018
Missed my point maybe, that video above is from Channel 4. Check how many truth bombs he drops on Kristian G
Channel 4 never used to do these until the JBP interview
I think it might be good to get this guy interviewed - he talks a lot about the Left taking personal responsibility
Does anyone think that these new long form interviews are a reaction to the IDW scene? If so, I like it!

maybe it makes it seem more alluring. Good marketing move. But I totally think deep is more appropriate.
Well that is Elon Musks argument against AI trading bots, their logical way to increase money would be to go short on consumer stocks, long on military ones and gold and start a war
But I do believe they try to manipulate chaos to make the volatility have bigger swing. My libertarian Ideal is that we inform the public, so they can be protected and the wisdom of the crowds would balance it out slower
Yeah, shelldrake is obviously a very intuitive knower - lots of resonance theory has come a long way too(edited)
I'll have to check him out @Skookum
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When you do trading you have market cycles which are essentially tracking the bell curve of the meme of that product or stock, humans move in predictable ways, even population booms. That is the knowledge that the current 1% use to squeeze the rest of us
Bubbles - housing etc. Then we get corrections like Trump and Brexit. You can't really argue that they are artificial though because they are the product of society, not separate from it.
If we want to be integral thinkers maybe holding both seemingly contradictory ideas to be true, will help us see the true middle ground
Well, epigenetics pretty much proves there is a middle way between evolution and intelligent design
Certain genes get activated in certain situations - kind of like archetypes?
Sounds a lot like morphic resonance theory too
Yeah ,true, but Evolutionary biologists and Shelldrake kinda agree on the selfish meme - ideas that propagate(edited)
different sides of the same coin I think - magic - science
But a we are butting against the limits of our planet the knowledge wants/needs to be freed
We only understand this now… rulers of countries must have had this knowledge ("So we tend to be more right wing by our very nature when there is scarcity rather than abundance") for….centuries…millennia? What do you think..
Maybe, but maybe the real big conspiracies are committed by our genes and memes
in our subconscious - and conspiracy theories self fulfill - which is why it's so important to make great art for the future I think
I big Red Pill I swallowed was watching the Behavioural Evolutionist lectures where he showed that trauma in childhood can effect your political POV by expression of eppigenetics and that there really are two types of people, because we are unique to other animals because we are both communal AND hierarchical (expressed as the Warrior gene). So we tend to be more right wing by our very nature when there is scarcity rather than abundance
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Robert Sapolsky - definitely a guest I'd like to contrast with JP ideas:

Yeah, that's why I kinda like Trump and Brexit now, Bannon, Rees-Mogg and Farage may have paid for the chaos, but they don't own the coalising backlash and awakening
He did the Left a favour and told us to clean our room
History and understanding and "know thyself" too
Just different ways of getting to the same thing - because we all rely on each other being successful in society - standing on the shoulders of giants
But it seems the media, some politicans and power interests exaggerate the differences between different groups, for their own gain
There are blatantly soooo many more things we agree on.
that's why I think we need to be seeing both sides as mother earth hints that we shouldn't try to fill that extra 3 billion places left on Earth until we can manage this many
BUT, when there aren't people trying to create chaos, the internet is actually pretty good at self organising, especially if you built tools that enhanced the good ideas rather than the trojan horses or just blind mistakes - Use the Wisdom of the Crowds I say.
It seemed to be doing fine, until all the springs. Then there was a clampdown and change. We all saw it
Remember when Alex Jones was a Libertarian and the theories were… different
I think some key red pills we all need to find and consume and spread on the internet, despite the misinformation and false opposition, will bring that critical mass of awareness
trevken03/08/2018
I think some key red pills we all need to find and consume and spread on the internet, despite the misinformation and false opposition, will bring that critical mass of awareness
Maybe it's just part of the process though - the divine one
Exactly - seems like we are all blinded to the other sides and just pulling in opposite directions rather than together
There is Libertarianism at the top of the Axis, and Nationalism at the bottom (both often overlooked even if the Left and Right use them) So if you see politics as an axis rather than a pendulum, it appears that we have been going round in circles. I often think that the Alt right started years ago as a Libertarin movement but it was co-opted into being a Nationalistic movement
And also the old Left Labour and Democrats were co-opted by fake Libertarianism, called Neoliberalism. Which was freedom for the rich even though they were mostly state backed.(edited)
Clockwise round the circle until we find the true center - taking the best bits from all when needed
It's about time this superorganism called humanity had full spectrum vision
I think we are a superorganism, our illusion of separation keeps us competitive though which is needed as well as co-operation
Libertarianism is freedom for the individual, Socialism is freedom for the collective - But I think they both overlap at some point in the habitable zone
I think the goal for us as a species should be to see all sides of the political sphere and get the best bits from each perspective. Maybe we go round the circle with Libertarianism at the Top so many times until we reach a balanced middle.
I really like JP and Sheldrakes theories and ideas. But one thing I find to be a contradiction is that JP a Christian (kinda) but is the archetype of Jesus was a Lefty bringing collectivist Socialist ideas yet he ignores this similar to the Christian Right does. Evidence:
-He threw the money lenders out
-Rich people fitting through the eye of a needle easier than getting to heaven
-The good samaritan/ treat neighbour as equal
-Forgiveness etc.
-Opposition to the Roman Empire
I think his kind of spirituality is to give meaning in a capitalist structure that is in many ways failing us as a species
Neale Donald Walsh, Christof Koch (Panpsychist Neuroscientist ) Robert Sapolsky (Neurobiologist and Behavioural Evolutionist)
Concepts and Ideas must engage your imagination (pictures, smells, colours places etc) to connect to as many related things in your mind as you can so you have different avenues to access the information.
But what I have learnt since then from other books on the mind is that your subconscious normally communicates to you the important bits by sending you a feeling - the mind will empty the recycle bin if emotion doesn't tell you it's important information anyway. Fear is the strongest emotion that helps us remember. Hence why advertisers and manipulators try to get you emotional before shoving their brand or message into your head.
maybe not "harmony", a more subjective description could be equilibrium. This is the story as old as culture itself. Bad actor or event interrupts the equilibrium, chaos and suffering ensues until new order or equilibrium is reached using a hero who through trial and error, discovery and or enlightenment, finds a way to return to a satisfactory equilibrium.
Order from chaos. Sand dunes emerge from random wind vectors. Structure from chaos, or a body without organs.

He shows how people can easily be in a bubble which is shocking in itself that media has become so insular. And I have a lot to disagree with him about too but he draws out the hypocrisy vey well by not being gotcha'd
Only bits I disagree with is that it's all the fault of "Cultural Marxists" rather than a more nuanced view - or even a critique of the hierarchy itself that has made the Left so impotent and grasping at identity.
Yeah, that is the fire we steal from the feminine I guess, being restrained and having empathy.
well said. I've been redpilling myself thinking of examples where competition ultimately leads to agreement or monopoly…. So if we imagine archetypes may be inherent in certain genes, for example the Warrior Gene, which can be activated in trauma or initiation rites, there may be more useful archetypes, linked to behaviour and maybe genetics or epigenetics. Maybe mastering these aspects of the human organism we come closer to knowing ourselves better as a whole.(edited)

We really do need to be able to separate real news and geopolitical events from ones engineers for control or to cause chaos in order to change different asset prices. I think that's what Brexit and Trump are mostly. Global adjustments that the top will benefit most from
I also hear Trumps new science advisor is a climate scientist. I have a feeling he will become "convinced" once they need the Petrodollar to go up in value

But what bakes my noodle is that humans are also symbiotic with our gut bacteria and other systems too, further confusing one life form from another.
the reason I have picked up his ideas again so many years later is because there is so much extra research about rhizomatous fungus from organic growing and how it actually supports multiple levels of life on top of it and the roots actually connect to the roots of many different plants at the same time and share out resources AND information between the plants and fungus that have bonded. Some plant/fungus rejects the other and they are stand alone.
I've been thinking about that scapegoat thing… I don't think we do need them anymore. Or they are just distractions from the Left (and the Right) organising for real change. Some theorize that we need a common enemy to unite against to keep sane and happy consumers and producers of offspring and goods… But I disagree. That only helps those invested in the war industries or the hedge assets like gold (check out it's price history). I think we can find meaning in the search for meaning and solutions. Letting go of Trump as my own scapegoat has freed me to actually see how he works and the things he says that are true - like global currency manipulators and unfair trade.
Lots of things have come true which he suggested like torrents, Bitcoin, Wikipedia and other egalitarian networks that model how he suggests we could structure ourselves more efficiently . Freedom for the collective and the individual - they both align on the important bits.
Which is why it excites me. I think this guy, Jeff Vail, who I happen to have on my Linked in is a genius/sage. re-reading it with wiser eyes more than 10 years on many thing he suggested kinda came true
"A Theory of Power" By Jeff Vail - a systems analyst. This short free book is worth a read - . The book suggests that we are power vectors for memes and genes. Each node becoming aware of this would lead to them searching for a new meaning would make the system cohere in the most efficient ideas that emerge… https://the-eye.eu/public/WorldTracker.org/Sociology/Vail%20-%20A%20Theory%20of%20Power%20%28iUniverse%2C%202004%29.pdf
Kinda like waking up to how our our free will is manipulated by memes and genes, but finding meaning and guidance from the past to move beyond it.
Memes that get out of hand are reigned in by their opposite. Religion stigmatized science as "dark magic" until finally we built civilization opon science alone. Now science is the new dogmatic area that needs to be reigned in by a return to people accessing mystic truths.(edited)
You could reduce these opposing memes down to Science = the study of small details vs. Spirituality = the study of everything. Maybe that's why science is so far from a theory of everything - because they are all too autistic and trapped in their own ego and scientific realm of reality

From my experience with LSD, Shrooms and MDMA - they all have the ability to re-organise your brain connections. They allow information to flow down paths not used and allow for new connections and epiphanies. I had LSD after my father died in homage to him and it was therapeutic (I also quit smoking for a year without wanting to). But beware, this is a powerful tool. Another time I did MDMA while I was only about 18 (bad setting and people) and saw what looked like demons on the threshold of each road I walked down and it was very traumatic. I had a dissociation from reality for about a few weeks after.

Cannabis edibles scratches my psychedelic itch too. I do actually feel connected to a deeper consciousness and have ideas and epiphanies that to be seem better than I could come up with normally. Closed eyes listening to Pink Floyd - Shine on You Crazy Diamond
If you imagine that we live in a purely deterministic world, free will, and random number generators are not truly random, or free. However in chaos theory, complexity builds upon complexity which is the closest we can get to a random number generator. Therefor the greater the options, the more choices and the more "free ". So either remove constraints, barriers and/or adding more options, is the closest we get to having free will. Quantum computing uses the quantum realm to add a 3rd option instead of just 0 or 1. This is shown to be most effective for "best path" type problems, where random choices are more effective at tying the different paths as opposed linearly or systematically. If we do have free will, it looks most probable that it emerges from the quantum realm, else, the only way to have free will is to increase choice.(edited)
So, the problem is choice, as Neo puts it.
That is the risk that global thinking and detachment from the ego self. That of either extreme nihilism or extreme empathy for the other and it can be damaging either side. Faith or meaning overcomes both of these extremes.(edited)
That's why I think we as a species are again searching for meaning - other than phony capitalism and The Kardashians. But for me personally, there is a new meaning emerging in my faith in the superorganism or gaia that understands it's different limbs and organs as archetypes, takes control of these genes and memes collectively so none of them become cancerous and honour the divine in them.(edited)
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The more we realise this, the more we have free will I beleive. Free will is having the knowledge of choices and how they are constrained by our genes and cultural memes - then having the opportunity to create new stories based on our actual needs as individuals, as a species and as a planet.
Yeah, exactly, it seems that people's inherent human need to be different is being abused and exploited by corporations just to fill their own pockets. The media is broken as Trump points out.
But I love him because like Trump, he is causing the Left to sort it's shit out.
And as he nicely ties Marxism (capitalisms main critique) further into identity politics that is a form of self defence from the current "free market" hierarchy that cannot see beyond its own limitations.(edited)
Yeah, my main criticism of him is that he cannot see how pathological neo-liberal form of capitalism currently is and is actually causing the problems that he points out(edited)
It's why we have tells, natures survival mechanism I guess
I believe it's his subconscious mission to give the left the tools they need. Manipulation always backfires because people cannot hide their tells from everyone.
Truly believing you are gods chosen people might go to your head and make you become more successful. Which might have been their historic curse too due to jealousy.
at the risk of sounding anti-semitic, maybe it has something to do with the memes that exist in their religion. From my understanding of the Bible, they were told they were the chosen people. That would have a good parent kind of self fulfilling effect. Positive thinking and the placebo effect. Kind of like "The Secret".
I think Neanderthals were the smartest. We all have the same capacity to learn dude. Don't go there
Too many extremists at the moment pumping identity politics. Maybe it's not a conspiracy but everyone's warrior gene is being activated on the Left and the Right as we enter times of scarcity rather than abundance and people like JP and others are trying to bring their respective sides back closer to the middle to deal with it as adults
And an open discourse
Yeah that sounds better, the center can seem boring and stuffy, so maybe the challenge is to go into each one deeply and use integrative thinking.
Slavoj Zizek seems to be one of the few on the Left that is attacking Identity Politics

There is still Noam Chomsky but he is a lone quiet voice of reason, but unfortunately don't know how much longer:

Yeah it seems there were lots of people updating and creating myths in that period of history - maybe we're having a renaissance of intellectual thought as a backlash to the dumbing down
Yeah, that seems to be the trap from both sides - by baiting each other into hypocrisy - plus it sells. Which is why the media loves ID politics and trump etc.

He used to be good in these days - he was a Libertarian rather than a nationalist racist
I think Alex Jones was false opposition anyway to discredit the conspiracy scene. But I wouldn't worry, he peddled blatant hate speech and misinformation as fact. It's a pretty low bar and as private companies they do have a right to do so. It's the fact that many companies did it at the same time that is scary tho I admit.
May be another trap because he is easily proven to be a hate monger I think
Well it may be a slippery slope scenario, but I say pick your battles - see who is next if any. We don't wanna die on Alex Jones's free speech "hill" so to speak.
Alex Jones does fart out Memes of misinformation about important issues. I'd rather see him challenged in an open discourse but they do have the right to kick him off because it is part of the capitalist system. Maybe a Facebook and a YouTube needs to be a utility where we can vote someone off rather than it being for a advertisers/shareholders interest.
That's why this has confirmed for me that he is a controlled opposition - or at least funded by someone bad. But I agree it's a risk that more will follow.
Soon we might need to be careful that both the Left and the Right aren't tempted too far towards Nationalism.
Yeah, but I think it'll be fine. There needed to be a resurgence of the importance of localism. People who call all brexiteers racist annoy the hell out of me
Just an appreciation of local knowledge, skills, resources and needs I think. At a level smaller than the nation, as well as national sovereignty maybe.(edited)
the word I may have been looking for is local-ism. Keep the money in the community and spread it around as much as possible rather than sitting on the sidelines in various asset accounts.(edited)
Canada going after Saudi values and norms too now… If you see humans as expressions on the spectrum as either; Pair-bonding, monogamous, communal and cooperative, Left leaning VS. Tournament, polygamous, competitive and Right leaning, it seems that this is a global struggle that is reaching a climax where the fight for each side needs to understand the qualities of either side or at least, stop seeing each other as the enemy of humanity. We need to understand the downsides of each too:

(edited)
I'd also add the following structure types and species type preference that I think align best:(edited)
In the UK, your individual right to have a gun in a public space is not seen as being bigger need than our collective rights not to be shot by one
Things are too complex and nuanced to be getting dogmatic and allowing ourselves to be manipulated by preying on our instinctive feelings, rather than facts
Yeah, I get ya, you have probably had your tournament gene activated during stress at some point when you were young like me. It increases incidence of to addiction in men and women but much higher rates than men unfortunately. It has taken me many years to be able to reduce my intake due to lack of education about how to manage stress in life like meditation to get back to the sympathetic nervous system VS. parasympathetic nervous system.

It just seems to me that most of the media is race baiting/gender baiting now, reaching a climax where rational people are looking for alternatives
Debate is good, just more sensible, less emotional debate I think
So, the problem for @Rebel Wisdom is to lure people in with emotional clickbait and then whack them with a sensible debate once they're engaged.
That's why I'd like to see more experts debate each other without dog-whistling either sides subconscious prejudices

So far he seems to be saying that people are too dumb to vote for an integral parties or policies. Not good enough. Let's just try and see before we write things off using more ideological thinking. Neuroscience comes up with more support for brain plasticity every day. Maybe it's self fulfilling. Because we haven't organised ourselves efficiently enough to give people the free time to indulge their intellect with long form information.
So far he seems to be saying that people are too dumb to vote for an integral parties or policies. Not good enough. Let's just try and see before we write things off using more ideological thinking. Neuroscience comes up with more support for brain plasticity every day. Maybe it's self fulfilling. Because we haven't organised ourselves efficiently enough to give people the free time to indulge their intellect with long form information.

I don't let my different sides of my brain take charge for 4/5 years at a time. They vote on each individual issue.
This is an interesting point he makes - that using one-person-one-vote might lead to ethnocentricity without dividing regions to stop this. Well it seems pretty ethnocentric right now anyway so bad argument. Also, another way around this and to have truly integral politics would be to keep the parties, have more parties in fact, but don't vote on who is dictator, instead vote on each individual issue to stop tyranny. We have the technology now (hello blockchain), no excuse.(edited)
It's not like the world is lacking resources to give people that time to think. The problem is that resource scarcity actually makes things more valuable, rather than valuing things for other reasons. We are not stupid just because we aren't obsessed with acquisition of goods - what looks to us like just another pathological addiction.
How do we live in a world where anti-fascists are being opposed by culture?
Yeah, I pulled back from nihilistic destruction. The process saves you and gives you new meaning tho

I'm just a realist.
We're breaking that rule every single day lol
Malen GlinkovYesterday at 23:06
To protect this planet first
As apex predator we have a moral obligation.
Add more nodes to work on the problem.
I think its great and all to envisage the Earth itself as being energy-efficient, but again, I think the times call for the human race to spread out into space. Unfortunately, the technology to reliably enable this is likely impractical at best.
China were dumping cheap panels on the market and Trump saw that as a bad thing… Efficiency has almost peaked tbf until a new tech is invented, but we only really need 20–30% efficiency cuz we have the space for more.(edited)
Without the high temperature superconductors, there's always going to be a lot of energy lost in transmission.
And there hasn't been any, despite decades of research.
To have a true energy revolution and eliminate structural inefficiencies, there'd need to be a revolution in high temperature superconductors.
The other trick is to make them cheaper.
You can do that now in the form of atomic batteries.
Give every man a computer , access to education and a solar panel system that makes him efficient in a local grid, we'll soon solve unlimited energy - for all intents and purposes.
Imagine if you could buy a year's worth of battery power for all your needs, all in 1 device?
Batteries are a way around needing a grid.
I worked in renewables for years, the future is decentralisation. Batteries aren't the problem, it's the inefficient centralised grid as it's currently structured. That's when we will go parabolic.
There's already stuff in the works. You're welcome to work on it independently if you want.
We're really not anywhere near as advanced as we portray ourselves to be in science fiction.
Supercapacitors are probably our best bet.
Malen GlinkovYesterday at 23:00
Basically we need better energy storage devices.
Batteries have their limits, mostly due to how they can be designed (they're often physically inflexible and have to have a rigid body)
Supercapacitors, actually.
The battery was actually a limit on renewable energy. Apparently inventors have been working on this with some success. Maybe we'll see the Moore's law of batteries?
Hint: Google AI programmers have already developed types of AI which can program more efficiently than they can. And Bitcoin incentivizes renewable energy and efficiency(edited)
That is wishful thinking.
Energy which is created buy currently inefficient machines that leave a carbon footprint.
Malen GlinkovYesterday at 22:57
Yea some people think future generations will be able to solve any problem if we just trust them.
I know, which is another reason self-actualization is important. So are other technologies like CRISPR and how to unlock neuroplasticity.
I think the act of destruction wakes up more people. I can't wait till the self actualisation of the human race which will be unlimited energy. It will cause a new problem as human labour is outbid by robots and AI. Then we will turn back to a search for meaning.

Wow, that is a big admission and made me quite emotional. Women are the drivers of genetic evolution in this egalitarian society. We need these open discussions.
Maybe another description of the feminine is a connection to the other (creation too, because they carry the child, and because they select the genetics when not in an arranged marriages), and masculine as more by separation, building walls and membranes and individuality or building separate structures. But I think we could get tied down with categorical symbolic thinking and pattern detection where none exist and miss the bigger picture or other possibilities/multiplicities.
It seems more logical to attach destruction and chaos to the bit in between self and other, the male and female. The androgynous that defies categories and emerges as a new structure as either a rhizome (flat) or hierarchy (tall). The thing that forces change and evolution.
From my reading of the bible many people with different causes contributed and changed/added at different times in history. I think it's true that the feminine has been downplayed or even purposefully demonized to make the populations of those times more tournament like and conquering. But here is my mind blowing theory; the deepest thinkers and sages who knew they could predict only one thing for sure - conquering and growing we will periodically hit barriers of resources and things need to change until the final barrier of global overpopulation (estimated to be another few billion people). Hence the end times predictions and the similarities of our society to that during the fall of Rome (debasing the currency and making celebrities of chefs and increased incidents of homosexuality).(edited)
This is after all, it's the biggest contradiction of dualistic religions of good and evil. But, this knowledge might lead to nihilism or tyranny if we don't have feed-back from other opinions and values of a collective goal or "good".
What about gnostic texts and Mary, and Judas? Judas apparently said he knew that Jesus was sent by Abraxas (he who could not be named) who was both good and evil because good cannot exist without evil. Therefore it's hard to make a moral judgment on his betrayal, because had he not, Jesus wouldn't have been sacrificed to complete the prophecy.(edited)
Peterson himself admits that Psychology is mostly used as a tool of social control and I think his personal fight is more for the Right and the masculine so he would promote, or tend to beleive that view from my understanding

That's not to say that I personally think women can't be tyrannical. In fact there is a theory that women who have their warrior gene activated, they become more tournament like, disagreeable, polygamous and other effects like increased incidence of drug dependency, depression and other things men suffer from more than usual.
Promote the view that feminine = evil tyranny
Yeah, a new covenant or deal was struck in the new testament where sacrifice was no longer needed for forgiveness.
I was brought up Christian and went to a variety of churches. The I became atheist and am now becoming open to spirituality mysticism again… On my journey of thinking and meditating on the trinity for how it could be interpreted as; God the Father, God the mother and God the holy spirit (that which binds us both).
Maybe because hell manifests easier on earth, rather than heaven.
I questioned that, but I think he got angry on the cross because he experienced separation from God - true pain unable to be known in heaven… And he was angry with the money lenders because they were immoral and he was showing the divine masculine in kicking them out(edited)
The prodigal son went out to conquer the world, whereas the "good" son stayed at home to help family. But God loves them both just as much because both types of people are needed
Son no 1 was conquering the material and spreading his seed (hierarchy). Son no 2 stayed at home in pair bonding servitude (rhizome)
And the more I have meditated upon the parable of the prodigal son I understand it properly for the first time (I always thought it was unfair too until now). Think about these two personality types, extroverted, spreading genetics without setting down (polygamous men of the flesh) and the second son who put all his energy into preserving the current families survival of genetics - who sacrifices his own genetic propagation for the good of the family unit. I feel like a red pill is being being digested right now.
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Woah, chill with the dogma people. Masculine and Feminine are ancient, prehistoric qualities. The are both truly our archetypal gods which we descended from. These archetypes can even switch roles depending on the species. Attributing good and bad to traits either one is just dogmatic.(edited)
I think I suffer from that problem too when I have those conversations with people. They automatically assume "you're on their side eh"
That's how it comes across sometimes, maybe he isn't intentionally but it seems like it because we live in a society that protects the feminine so much that any criticism or suggestion that femininity can have bad consequences too, or as female traits - it just comes across that way.(edited)
But I do strongly feel that he is wrong about the male/female archetypes - at least in nature rather than myth which he might be right about. When animals have a queen, the genetics spread in a more flat rhizome structure where the genetics are more similar among the population. When genetics are driven by females selecting males for dominant traits, animal structures are more vertical and genetics, more varied. If you conceptualise information propagation as having structure, those two types emerge and both have weakness and strengths but biodiversity needs both types.
there are contrarians in life that are needed for that balance
I think there are many common causes, some have been attacked and suppressed, others being manipulated to be bigger than they really are etc.. But I think the only causes that succeed long term are ones that people come to of their own free will (because manipulation backfires) and/or ones forced on us by natural limits.
Where the freedoms of the individual and collectives align are probably the most successful causes. Who will disagree other than people wanting to stifle freedom and by doing so their own?
While I was a single father though, I was very annoyed with the way culture treated me like I didn't exist and spread stereotypes of men. I also had more difficulty as a man legally having custody. That is why we need to fight for human rights to be equal, rather than for just one group at a time.
I'm just watching The Red Pill documentary… I have a thought about the bit where they say that Women and Children get preference during a rescue; This may be an evolved defence mechanism to actually stop the women or children from having a traumatic event that might trigger their warrior gene. This might actually have been a preservation of the masculine driven culture… Women step up to the mens plate during times of hardship (like during war). Just like I found myself expressing more female personality traits while I was a single father of a young child (edited)
Its a shame the documentary was funded by them because we do need to have some of the other discussions
This Redpill documentary doesn't pass my test of authenticity. Karen was defending Boko Haram in defence of men's issues?? WTF? I am a big defender of mens rights as fathers but this just seems an illogical argument. It also bothers me that it was funded by Brietbart by Milo. He just hates all people and wants to fuck with the world to make money.(edited)
Men are stronger on the average - that is the reason we do harder more physically risky work, and often is paid massively if there is any technical skill involved such as oil workers. We can't have it both ways - just like they shouldn't.
Fathers for Justice were my heroes when I was being denied access to my kid. They were bottom up movement that actually changed the law in the UK. This is top down manipulation from my POV. Many arguments are hypocritical and don't actually do anything for mens rights because it paints us as idiots and pussys
Right, everyone is a free speech advocate if it's their speech. It took off from those readers. She seems a fairly mediocre journalist too so I can see why.
No, I think they are using real issues for their own personal benefit - and actually hurting the cause.
JP does that with white males, but he treads too closely towards blaming those below him which is getting him into murky waters but helps his career I guess
I think you embrace a healthy masculinity by having the potential to dominate, but only use it against someone above you in defence of someone below you in the hierarchy. Showing compassion and understanding for those below without ceding your own rights will set a positive role model for those below and above help reduce corruption. It might not take you as far personally in life (because of the system) but it elevates us all.
Yes, very true, it goes back to the idea of punching sideways or up, rather than downwards, which I think comes across bad. But I personally think he's a bit on the Aspergers spectrum (like me and a lot of men he attracts) and he doesn't quite see how it is viewed by some. But he stands up to tyranny still for people below.
Watch the lecture from here: spoiler, humans are both. The balance of Hierarchy vs Rhizome must always be maintained - it makes us the most adaptable species:

Build the muscles AND the brain of the Übermensch. Both are needed after all.
Speaking from a slightly protectionist point of view of preserving my own culture, it makes more sense to make the rest of the world more egalitarian, with rules that align both the individual and collective - because otherwise we will be outcompeted by force/muscle/technology because information wants to be free anyway. The information is tied into our ancestry and will always call us if it is subverted for too long.
Listen from the timestamp of 1h17m20s - He talks about the connection to masculinity, the ego and, psychedelics, chaos /femininity

Maybe that was the message of Jesus's cross, the vertical balanced with the horizontal
"human beings are the hands of Gaia" Terence Mckenna