THE STOCK MARKET 💸💸💸

in #finance6 years ago (edited)

So when I was a boy, my dad had me flipping thru this manual, choosing a stock fund sort of thing to put my lunch money into.

I liked it. It's cool. I was into it.

Invest in things people are doing, that are driving the world forward, and passively earn a return. Neat!

Markets are awesome.

But now as an adult type of person, something about it doesn't seem quite right.

Markets are awesome, but..

If I own a piece of a company, they should want my creative input and guidance. Otherwise what's the point of having me? If it's just to passively own the share, I wonder why they wanted to sell it.

It's easy to think of things as being legitimate and making sense just because they happen on a large scale, but does it pass the sniff test conceptually?

People worry about some symptoms, like "insider trading", but not about the root issue. We just take for granted that it's normal that other people will want to sell us a share of their company, and we don't have to do anything and still get a piece of the action.

If some random guy in a small office offered you that deal (and even if you knew you'd legitimately have a share of their company), you'd probably be like "....uhh"

Needing capital is a thing, ya. But that's for startups, and it's up to seasoned venture capitalists to decide if it's worth funding. Established companies with plenty of cash flow shouldn't have a need to sell you a share, unless they want a way out and a way to leave the public with the bag.

Try thinking about future trends and what a good stock market strategy would be.

To me it seems like there's so much boom potential in Africa, and most of Asia seems a pretty safe bet to grow.

(In general the poorer countries should trend better than the richer countries, if you assume there's nothing special or long lasting about the richest countries and the disparity should lessen.)

So suppose you can anticipate the best economies to invest in. Easy, right? Buy and hold shares of those economies, and boom.

But I don't think it actually works like that.

Whenever I think about these trends and where the booms will be, the biggest (the overwhelming) thing that I just keep thinking about is a trend towards decentralization.

Even beyond "mom and pop" type of decentralization (like removing the rules that favor big corporations), I imagine there comes a point where I can deliver my lasagna to you on a drone copter, and other similar advancements that cause an explosion in peer-to-peer and very decentralized commerce.

That's where the real boom happens. And the stocks you own, even if they're in boom economies, don't very perfectly tap into that.

So while Africa may boom to a higher standard of living more similar to the rest of the world, I'm not sure there's a way to passively buy and hold a share of that.

The way to tap into that is to have your boots on the ground, creatively doing something.

So I think that's what the con is. It isn't that large companies are gonna collapse and go to 0. It's that they won't keep up with the emergent economy and the real growth that happens.

(And the people who sell it to you are happy to be liquid, rather than be stuck with the bag in a constantly evolving world.)

I'm not saying not to buy stocks

They're probably better than real estate and cash and gold and basically everything besides BTC. Especially if you identify some trends decently.

But I see it as an investment in the current paradigm, or basically a hedge against the kind of world we want taking longer to get here.

I don't think there's a way to use stocks that taps into the emergent, localized, peer-to-peer growth explosion that's bound to happen at some point.

They might do quite well. They might sort of tap into the real growth. But very imperfectly. You'd be better off holding Bitcoin.

It continues to be my feeling that Bitcoin is the only thing you can passively hold that taps into the future of where we're going. Everything else you want to be doing, using.

It could be a slow boil. If you own some big stock like General Electric or whatever, maybe what happens is they essentially become cash dispensers who try to identify the right projects to invest in. And owning a share of them is a share of their ability to invest correctly, to invest in more decentralized things.

But that still won't be as good as the actual growth that's happening. (Good visionaries and creators aren't going to be settling for deals that give a big windfall to the people who spotted the startup cost.) It will be a way of like "hanging on", so that the old way isn't left entirely in the dust, but it'll still fall behind.

You'd be better off holding Bitcoin, and diversifying into projects that you're a part of yourself.

Standard advice from someone like Jim Rogers would be something like "sit on the sidelines in cash until you're sure, and then strike". It's good advice. But what you want to be doing now is hold Bitcoin. Cash or gold will keep you static, but Bitcoin will keep you tethered to the emergent p2p economy. Sit on that sideline, and then decide when the moment is right for other things.

public ownership could be a thing

Sort of.

And blockchains could maybe help.

But only for projects that make sense to own publicly. A bridge or a port. Energy, hospitals. Things that are a utility to a whole area and inherently matter to lots of different people.

One aspect of these services is that decreasing the chance of big mistakes seems like the vital thing. (You want the bridge to work so that everything it services can be excellent more than you really need the bridge to itself be excellent or the best bridge it could have possibly been.) So big companies who internally have a very decentralized mechanism of making decisions seems better than lots of little centralized companies.

So, large scale collective ownership, is how I think it may evolve for these. But even then it will be different than how it works now.

You should have a vote or influence commensurate to how many shares of it you own. And the amount of shares you own should have something to do with your reputation (i.e, you're allowed to buy more of them if you're more trusted). If you're regarded as someone who makes good decisions or has experience at this exact thing, or at least is a known person with presumed good intentions and vested interest like you have a house or a business nearby, all these things should tip the scales towards you mattering more than some unknown.

It shouldn't be like the way it is now where ownership is given out blindly based on whoever wants it and has money. (In that case, you'd never want there to be a mechanism for your owners to steer the company, because your owners have no idea how to steer it.) You should own because you have something to offer.

You wouldn't want it to be easy for an evil person with enough money to create a terrible bridge, basically.

So it would maybe mimic the way we own stocks now, but is actually just a more elaborate version of actually being involved and doing something for the company.

Sort:  

So, basically sell all our stock and buy Bitcoin. :)

Yup!

wait.. this is not financial advice, I am not a professional advice person, this information is intended for entertainment and informational purposes only 😛

If I own a piece of a company, they should want my creative input and guidance.

You have a good point when I think about it. Startups are the once who need the investor’s capital most. The big companies such as Apple closing in on $1 Trillin doesn’t need investor’s money. Isn’t it ridiculous? I think it’s called greed. They want to get bigger and bigger. I’m not so sure about investing in poor countries. First, I have no idea what company I would invest in and I just don’t believe that the investment is worth it. On top of it, I feel like there are many companies trying to scam people. I know some may say in US it’s the same, I disagree though. We can compare it to Bitcoin and small altcoins. I believe bitcoin will eventually outperform altcoins in the long therm with few exceptions. Just like US will eventually outperform poor countries. On the other hand if US goes down, poor countries go down even more. Remember, at some point US give some capital to these countries to help them with their economy. In my opinion stock are outdated, the real thing to invest in is just like you mentioned “bitcoin” and “blockchain technology”. “That's where the real boom happens.“
In stocks to be able to be one of the participants or decision maker, you would have to be a board member and to be a board member you need a lot of capital invested in this company. For me it sounds too old and boring when it comes to stock companies.

Maybe picking poor countries blindly wouldn't work too well. Many of the poor countries are that way for a reason, because their political systems aren't viable for commerce, and maybe they don't figure to change any time soon. (But still, in the way long term, whenever they sort it out and improve politically, then it's different.)

Just like US will eventually outperform poor countries.

Why tho? Bitcoin will outperform altcoins because there's a need to consolidate on one network. A lot of the disparity between US and rest of the world is just happenstance and a function of who has what system and where the power disparities are right now.

If we all had the same rules, there wouldn't be an inherent advantage to being on US soil.

Arguably there are innate differences, like some demographics of people might be "better" at certain skills. But people can move around and spread ideas, so that disperses a little over time.

So as long as there's a tendency towards more freedom, I think there's a tendency towards equilibrium. Some places might be a little better than others, but not by the wide margin that exists now, I don't think.

But ya, in the more immediate next couple decades, it's probably not a great a strategy to just blindly pick poor countries. Some of them are that way for a reason. And you get what you pay for, if it was guaranteed to grow, it would already be factored into the price.

Still, I just feel like there's more upside in places like Africa and Asia than US and Europe.

Africa seems young and hungry and bound to get better, but I have nothing to base that on. I just don't think too hard and go ahead and fire when I do buy a stock 😛

US I'd rather target more specifically on tech type of things or clean energy or weed. I'd hate to own the big dinosaur stocks. Everyone knows about them and it has to be saturated, just seems like no way you're getting a good value. It's a way to not leave it in cash and lose to inflation, but that's about it.

First, I have no idea what company I would invest in ... On top of it, I feel like there are many companies trying to scam people.

Just use an ETF, across the whole country or a sector within the country. I doubt you have to worry about scams, if it's large enough to be publicly traded. But how their government handles them and if there's a chance of being seized or your stocks are frozen or something like that could be a thing, not sure.

I think if you use an established US brokerage and they don't give you any kind of warning when you go to buy it, I wouldn't worry too much. But I don't really know.

@full-measure You have earned a random upvote from @botreporter & @bycoleman because this post did not use any bidbots.

Nice! Thanks.

If I own a piece of a company, they should want my creative input and guidance. Otherwise what's the point of having me? If it's just to passively own the share, I wonder why they wanted to sell it.

I keep it (very) simple: The company only wants money and gets it because of you, the buyer. They do not need your input (except money badumtss).
High (stock) quotation = high(er) reputation, kind of. There is more behind all that.

Like I said:

Needing capital is a thing, ya. But that's for startups, and it's up to seasoned venture capitalists to decide if it's worth funding. Established companies with plenty of cash flow shouldn't have a need to sell you a share, unless they want a way out and a way to leave the public with the bag.

When a company goes public (when they become a "stock"), they already exist and have the money they need. We're not talking about startups or needing funding. It's just transferring ownership, from the few people who originally owned it to a bunch of different hands.

Like ya, there can be a role for helping to fund a company and they just need cash and you stay out of it. Makes enough sense. But if it was a good deal you'd be able to find a few venture capitalists willing to fund it who could also add something. watch the show Shark Tank sometime lol, often they'll invest or not invest based on the connections they have and if they're able to help in some way.. it just makes more sense to invest in areas where you have an angle and can add value (and to seek investment from people who can).

collecting bits and pieces from random Moe Larry and Sallys is what crypto ICOs do lol, I don't think there's ever an actual need for that unless you know you wouldn't get the same valuation from seasoned VCs.

Ah sry, I am way too busy right now. Did not find any time to answer today. Hopefully tomorrow. I did not even read the whole article; should have added that, apparently.
Now I see what you actually mean(t); you are absolutely right, it is quite "redundant" respectively weird that they go public if they already have enough funds (reputation etc.) and the "right investors"; because the main reason of an IPO definitely is getting money, fame... (and b!tches jk :P). Maybe they do it because of "succession"... well, actually I am too tried right now (and you already wrote about ownership); Idk what else to say about that topic. Everything you stated seems legit imo.

My apologies for the chaotic paragraph.

no worries mr gandalf!! happy to be met with disagreement, curious if I'm wrong about something here, but ya, I was a little confused.. like wait, did he even read it? lol

but ya, no worries!!

So, finally haha
If I am not mistaken companies only go public because of the money. And maybe because of reputation. Well, I already wrote that - moreover you did too haha.
I really do not know anymore what I meant with "There is more behind all that." - probably only succession stuff or whatever.
However, it looks like I tried to disagree haha - but Idk what I should disagree on lol; again, you have written a pretty "logical" article. I probably was too stressed or whatever.
And that part about Africa (and Asia). Well, Idk if their economy is about to boom soon too (lol that word order). Asia - yes (at least when you looking at blockchain and stuff hah); but I do not think that Africa is about too "flourish" the next years. Other states still got too much influence there and are oppressing them.

but Idk what I should disagree on lol; again, you have written a pretty "logical" article. I probably was too stressed or whatever.

Haha, I hear you.. I agree that it seems like I "should" be wrong about something (it's quite the claim I'm making), but I don't think I actually am lol

::shrugs::

And that part about Africa (and Asia). Well, Idk if their economy is about to boom soon too (lol that word order). Asia - yes (at least when you looking at blockchain and stuff hah); but I do not think that Africa is about too "flourish" the next years. Other states still got too much influence there and are oppressing them.

Other states oppressing them is why I love speculating there. The oppression can eventually end. Whereas if you buy like General Motors or some established huge US company that everyone regards as safe, it has to be over-saturated.

So ya, maybe it will take a while for Africa to be 1st world, but if I had to pick countries to buy at their current prices, I'd rather pick the ones who are artificially held back and not currently popular investments, and essentially be speculating on improvement and more freedom and less oppression.

(But the caveat that makes it tricky is that when these conditions do improve, a lot of the progress is decentralized and maybe the stocks you'd buy now don't necessarily boom that much ::chin scratch face::)

Haha, yes, probably.

That definitely is correct. Thought about that too but I would still rather invest in cryptocurrencies instead of Africa (no offense Africa :D).

Absolutely legitimate. They are held back and they would do a lot better if nobody is oppressing them, of course; there are enough "western" companies which mess up Africa's economy as well, that is proof (eg. food industry).

True. That could be an issue.

ya, crypto >>> all 😛

great queto

🤔

The stock market achieves distinct profits
But you must be experienced in the field to achieve profits
Really very special article
Well done publishing

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