Thunderbolts Issues

gungasnake (49)in #history • 2 months ago (edited)

Issues with Claims and Ideas seen on Thunderbolts

First and most major, the claim that Velikovsky was wrong about the origin of Venus, and that Venus originated with Saturn rather than with Jupiter as Velikovsky had claimed.
The related claim of an antediluvian Saturnian system comprised of Saturn, Venus, Mars, and Earth (in an aligned stack in that order)
The claim that Jupiter had been hidden (behind Saturn) from human eyes during the Saturnian age.
The claim that the Saturnian system had wadered into the neighborhood of our present sun from the depths of space.
The claim that Saturn may have originated in one of the satellite galaxies of the Milky Way.

In Order

Items 1 and 2.
The Thunderbolts conception of the prehistoric Saturnian system appears to be constructed entirely from literature and interpretation of myth, without any more solid evidence than that. The most major piece of real evidence in that picture is planetary axis tilts which, amongst other things, do not seem to change much with time. Thus despite all of the intervening catastrophes since the antediluvian Saturnian system existed, Earth and Mars still have that roughly 26-degree tilt that characterizes the bodies of the Saturnian system (Saturn, Neptune, Earth, Mars) Venus on the other hand, to within less than half a degree, has the exact same 3 point something degree tilt as Jupiter. Precisely as Velikovsky’s theory would prredict.

For Venus to have ever been part of that antediluvian Saturnian system and now have the same tilt as Jupiter would require divine intervention.

Now, the people who constructed the Thunderbolts concept of the Saturnian system are not into psychadelics and were not just tripping that concept. Aside from the antediluvian Saturnian system and its alignment, there was also a post-diluvian Jovian system consisting of Jupiter, Venus (ejected from Jupiter), and Mars and Earth (captured in the mayhem following the flood and capture of Saturn). The potential for confusion is substantial.

Item 3.

Our ancient system (prior to the transfer of humans and other aquatic mammals to Earth from Ganymede) looked like this:

The logic

… Humans could not have originated in the dark and cold environment of ancienet Earth (no fur, no real night vision, aquatic but with no defense against sea monsters etc. etc.) and must have originated in the bright, warm part of the system seen. The sun could not have been between the two dwarf star systems (no transfer of humans possible through the sun…) and must have been on one end of the thing. The sun being behind Saturn would have made Mars and Earth into bright, warm places… Humans early on were not space faring (high tech to them was an atlatl) and did not come to Earth in space vehicles, an electrical water bridge or something similar to that is indicated. That requires a straight line approach between Earth and Genymede and that those two bodies, the largest rocky bodies in their respective systems, be on the outside edge of their respective systems. The entire system had to be on a line as shown.

Jupiter obviously was never hidden behind Saturn.

Item 4.
Something like Saturn could not just wander into the neighborhood of our present sun and be captured by it; stellar distances and the laws of probability would prevent that. For Saturn to originate at stellar distances from our system and then be captured by it would require either that it be precisely aimed at our system by somebody like Ming (the Merciless) from Mongo or that it be part of some dense and gargantuan cloud of Saturn sized objects crossing the path of our system, and evidence refutes that. In other words, the cloud would have to be crossing our system at less than the escape velocity of our system for Saturn to be captured; it would still be fairly close to us and our telescopes would easily detect it.

Item 5.
I allowed OpenAI to do the math for this one… For Saturn to originate in the nearest point of the satellite galaxies and make it to the neighborhood of our sun at a speed no greater than the escape velocity of our system would take a bit more than a billion year.

On the other hand, by plugging the 40K year RC date for dinosaur soft tissue remains into the standare little 24-hour clock model that has dinosaurs originating at 10:45 PM and extrapolating, I get our Earth being somewhere between a few hundred thousand and a few million years old. I view the claims of our planet being 4B years old as total BS; those are based on an assumption of heavy metals near the surface of our planet being indigenous to the planet, which strikes me as obviously false.

The Ganymede Hypothesis, of course, eliminates all such problems involving time and distances, amounting to a claim, supported by evidence, that everything we see in our system now was created within a reasonably confined space by a cosmic Birkeland current and its associated Herbig/Haro string.