Free Downvotes—Good, Bad or Meh?

in #steem5 years ago

I've been thinking about the upcoming hardfork, aided along by some other posts that are now appearing regarding the downvote pool that will allow for some free downvotes per day per account.

Some are heralding it as a good thing. STEEM, they argue, needs people to downvote, because downvoting is the only way to keep those who post garbage from doing it.

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Well, obviously, that's debatable, since there's still plenty whose posts are considered at best subpar pretty much doing what they want because they have the SP to weather the flag wars, what few have come their way.

But that's because not enough people with high SP has taken up arms. They'd rather use their SP in other ways, like delegation.

Prior to now, there hasn't been incentive to downvote because doing so takes away from one's ability to upvote. Each downvote means there could be all kinds of posts that don't receive an upvote.

With a separate downvote pool, people won't be penalized for going after those garbage posts. The trending page will become more organic. Fewer people will use bidbots because those kinds of posts will be primary targets. Life will be good on STEEM because of it.

Then, you have the opposing side, who may also be concerned about garbage posters, but they are equally if not more concerned about themselves and others getting hit in the crossfire of what must surely be an influx of flag wars. Without a disincentive to downvoting, more people will feel free to fling downvotes for whatever they like, going way beyond just disagreements on value of content.

We've already seen flag wars that have more to do with personality clashes, some of them wrapped in ideology, others just for pure spite. Those who warn against a downvote pool just see it as a potential free for all. No one will be safe.

While I can't see that downvoting will magically be used only for the garbage posters, the spammers, scammers and phishers, and while I do see an uptick in flag wars, I wonder just how much a few free downvotes a day will actually do. Personally, I think this is just to get us used to the idea of some free ones, so the next step can be providing more of them until we're actually able to earn an anti-curation reward for them.

In my opinion, those who don't feel the need to downvote now aren't going to feel it unless there is some ROI attached. I'm talking about the heavy hitters, the ones who are more about what they can get out of it than they are idealogical or what might be best for STEEM.

I've been trying to figure out an analogy to what downvoting is. I guess on Reddit, upvotes and downvotes push stories one way or the other, so that more people can read them, or not, depending on which way they're going. I guess there is that effect on STEEM, too, only there are rewards attached to it, too, and people tend to get a little upset when someone comes along and takes some rewards away.

Most of us are used to either purchasing an item, or not. We don't typically go to a store and start marking down their prices, or go to an art gallery and do something similarly. If we tried going lower on a higher bid at an auction, the auctioneer wouldn't listen to us.

The closest I've come to a working analogy is what happens with the markets. People vote up the price of something by buying it. Others vote the price down by selling. However, in each instance, both own something.

I guess in this case, we could say we own our stake. Thus, we're using our owned stake to vote up or down posts. However, the rewards being allocated to a post are meant for someone else, with a portion of it coming back to us in the form of curation. Downvoting tends to affect the creator's final cut, but it also affects the curation.

So, I don't know. By the end of the month, HF21 will no doubt be implemented and we will start to see the results of all of it within the weeks and months after its arrival. I don't intend to use the downvote any differently than I already do, which is not much. I think it lends to more ill will than good, simply because we are human and we don't like to see anything being taken away from us, even if it's not ours yet, and even though that happens all the time through falling STEEM prices and the constant roiling of the reward allocation process.

I will approach this like I try to approach most things in life. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and find a way to accept what will undoubtedly be something in between.

Undoubtedly, you've been weighing and sifting through the different opinions regarding HF21, the Economic Improvement Proposal, and particularly the downvoting pool. Have you found any clarity in any of it? Have you changed your mind one way or the other because of the information or opinions you've read?

Image source—Pixabay

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I was pretty neutral on the downvote pool until I started seeing people with some influence hyping as something that people absolutely need to do. To the point some will claim if you don't downvote then you don't care about Steem... bullshit.

That hype is going to lead to some unintended negative consequences which I believe is irresponsible on the part of those involved in the hype.

I've been vocally opposed to the EIP being part of this HF which creates a double hit on content creators since the SPS, which is needed, is being taken from the authors portion of the reward pool.

The slightly convergent linear reward curve will make it harder for small accounts to get traction while making it easier and more profitable for larger accounts. The theory is those larger accounts will do more manual curation and reward those smaller accounts a handup with rewards for good content. I don't believe for a minute their current behaviour will change.

As for making self-voting and the use of bid bots less attractive... excuse me while I try to stop myself from laughing so hard.


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Hey, @shadowspub.

Over the course of my lifetime, I've come to the conclusion that you can't really legislate morality. Those who are predisposed to do something will pretty much do it on their own, regardless of the incentive. Sure, there will be some who might go one way or the other based on the law, but by and large, we're going one way or the other anyway.

In the case of STEEM and the hardfork, code is law. And those who have proposed or been the most vocal about the EIP have not been predisposed to do what they're saying they're going to do when it's in effect. Why would they be after? What's really going to change? I'm not convinced that the economics will change so drastically that it will be worth doing more work for near to the same amount of ROI, if that's indeed what it is. (I'm not really convinced of that, either). They have a lot to prove in my eyes, which doesn't mean a whole lot to them, I know.

re: bid bots

I don't know if they would be vocal about such changes, if they felt they would ruin their business, just because there wouldn't be a whole lot of sympathy, I don't think, but I find it curious that there hasn't been a whole lot of complaining or undermining of the HF21 by the bot runners. That makes me wonder what's up. I guess their could be discussions off STEEM...

you might want to check @paulag's post from yesterday about what she's calculated is the likely result of the EIP .. before factoring in downvotes. It's not pretty and she's not the only one I've seen with the same conclusion

Just got back from reading her post. Not at all surprising. Someone else early on had numbers that didn't look so hot.

If those who are supposed to have the best interests of STEEM at heart, even if that means above their own, are the ones who are basically hollowing it out for their own gain, than there really isn't a reason for STEEM to exist. It was meant to be something for everyone, not the personal cash cow of a chosen few.

it is going to be very interesting to see how this plays out

Hmm, it's hard to decide which it stands for. To me it good and also an omen. A lot will benefit from it while other will be stranded because of it. It's a two way stuff.

Posted using Partiko Android

Hey, @maxwellmarcusart.

Yeah, I agree. There is definitely a double-edged sword feeling to it, and ultimately, it will come down to which side gets used most and how much. If there's moderation at all in the use of downvotes—meaning, they're more used for their intended function rather than not—than there's a chance for improvement.

I think majority will use it rightly since nobody is here to see the failure of others. Only a few who have been fighting it out will continue to do so.

Posted using Partiko Android

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