A Detailed Rewards Stats Page For Tax Purposes Would Be A Big Help
So I cashed out my STEEM Dollars (got lucky when the steemit market was at $0.23 right after the payout), and have decided to report my vested private shares (STEEM Power) as income now instead of later, as allowed by the IRS here in the USA.
Reporting the initial payout to a rough USD amount was easy. I just determined the USD value of the Bitcoin I received at the Bittrex STEEM market (got lucky it was about what I had in STEEM Dollars), and doubled it to account for the STEEM Power I received.
I noticed curation / content rewards were still coming in, a long time after the initial payout rewards. I did my record-keeping before these new rewards. I'm guessing rewards are nearly in real-time now or something? Anyways, it would really help a TON if there was an account page specifically devoted to rewards stats, or at least show the vests current dollar value. Charts and CSV exporting broken down into daily / weekly / monthly / yearly stats, etc etc would be great.
This is kinda my bread n butter so if you have any questions feel free to send them my way. Check out the comment I made on using trusts to mitigate tax liability. It comes down to two things, is the citizen the one accepting the benefit, and are you using legal tender attached to a federal jurisdiction. Do you have any contractual attachment to the federal govt that is the question and when I say "you" I mean the entity using the legal tender, could be a corp a citizen a LLC and so on and so forth. So the moment you "cash out" for legal tender it is now considered additional income and you have a tax liability. Tis what it is.
Setting up private trusts is literally what I'm going to try and show people how to set up and administrate, then they can funnel money back and forth in and out of the democracy using crypto's without incurring a tax liability or at least the smallest amount possible, there's a reason the super rich pay less then 1% in tax, they merely understand the system, or paid to have it designed that way, which ever you prefer.
Interesting insight into the system, thanks for the info. I did a lot of research on my own and determined exactly what you said: when it unvests it is taxable. One other interesting allowed possibility with a private company share equivalent (in the USA) I discovered: you can claim the income AT initial vesting, OR as you said when it is unvested. I'm claiming my rewarded STEEM Power as earned income now, just in case STEEM value rises. Then any value increase is taxed as a capital gain when unvesting, which works best for me because I am physically disabled and receive disability income (which is not affected by capital gains in regards to eligibility).
Hmm see and I should add how I've learned how to mitigate tax liability isn't the only way, there's multiple paths all depending on scenario. I really enjoyed reading that thank you.
It would seem there's a couple people who can potentially show a few different ways for users to maximize their profit if they plan on transferring it into legal tender/ a federal jurisdiction. That is exciting!
I'm also Canadian or the person I possess is so that's the jurisdiction I'm most familiar with, I do have a few friends in the states and I believe they're using an LLC as a flow through entity that manages and takes care of them/their family. Few rules to keep it tax free but the main one being money flows through it and it doesn't gain a profit. But that's not my area so I can't say for sure, might be something to look into though?
I checked them out up here (pass through entities), I think they still exist, not to sure, I couldn't find anything concrete since the repeal that dissolved "income trusts" up here. They had massive tax benefits because they could be used as pass through entities. The Canadian govt shut them down in 2011 because a ton of huge corporations were switching over and the CRA was losing millions of dollars in tax revenue.
But like I said I very much enjoyed the conversation and insight man thank you! This site and the exceptionally high level of intelligence in a decent range of topics is truly amazing.
where in Canada do you live?
I'm moving back in November, probably to Victoria. I'd love to connect and pick your brain on the subject - if it doesn't all come out in your posts before then...
Hey! I live in Alberta at the moment, thinking of heading to New Zealand when I'm done electrical in December but who knows. Another jurisdiction to figure out. Yeah I can definitely answer any questions you have (or as many as I can) and if I can't I can shoot them up the chain into the minds of more intellectually peaked persons them myself. My mentors so to speak.
Also I should post a disclaimer that this is not legal advice, I'm not an attorney, I'm just an expert in contract law. So this and any advice or conversations taken place wherein advice (personal opinion) is given is a contract made without any government jurisdiction federal or otherwise and is a private (meaning without any govt agency being part of the contract) contract between the parties on steemit made in their private capacity. (Just to cover my own ass now I have public notice).
But by all means I'm gonna make some posts showing people how to operate through trusts and shell corps so their tax liability is as low as possible putting as much money in the people's hands as I possibly can. The rich are clearly doing the same things "Panama papers" so why shouldn't I show us regulars how to do it as well without moving your funds offshore. Easy peasy :-).
where in Alberta are you based?
I'm originally from Edmonton and will be back there in December.
If you'd be interesting in doing something of that writing as a collaborative project, I might be down to help out with some editing, formatting, and feedback to really craft it into a top-notch piece that could get the proper exposure on here.
either way, it's going to ben an excellent contribution of knowledge to the community...
Yeh, my Dad incorporated (or some other form of biz entity) his business and gave himself a salary and left the rest in the business, no taxes paid on anything but his salary...totally legit. He can even take out a loan from his business and pay it back tax free as well if I recall correctly. Your welcome, enjoy steemit! :-) I hope this site's business model remains lucrative for us all.
I love the loopholes that come with a knowledge of the legal system "all accounting and surety". Awesome well I look forward to reading your posts in the future and contributing with you and like minded people on a variety of topics including this one.
I'll give you a follow and maybe in the future when that button does something I can catch a post or two from you.
Couldn't respond to you last reply directly because it reached maximum reply depth, but thanks for the follow...just followed you too. Good luck posting on Steemit.
looking forward to seeing more of this type of info from you, Will... :-)
Why should a decentralized ledger or blockchain display service attempt to calculate anyones tax situation?
Neither steemit or steem should attempt to provide this info. This is purely the users responsibility, every purchase and transaction has factors they could not possibly take responsibility for calculating.
I never said show tax info, just show some better details on your rewards. Then when YOU are doing your tax info its much easier.
Steemle might be able to offer you an account page where all your rewards are listed + pending rewards in like a week or so.
Steemle is a great resouces; I am on there every day. Glad to hear you have even more features coming in the future!
Sounds cool, looking forward to the next set of feature rollouts there.
This sounds like an entpreneurial idea to offer a service if this is in demand. This type of accounting system could be a service provided by some 3rd party entity, since the blockchain is public.
I don't feel steemit should offer it. I think it is a completely separate animal that needs its own website.
The equivalent of what you've asked, is like asking craigslist when you use their system. They don't offer that..
Perhaps wherever you are exchanging your STEEM could also be a place where this accounting occurs. Not from steem itself.
It could easily be done as a steemit feature, doesn't need to be too fancy, just basic info.
Cryptocurrency and Taxes
https://steemit.com/money/@marsresident/you-do-not-have-to-pay-taxes-on-cryptocurrencies-until-you-sell-them
Thanks for the link. In the USA we can claim the income derived from crypto immeaditely when we receive it, even if it's something like STEEM Power that lacks liquidity (equivalent of private company shares)...if you claim STEEM Power when you cash it out later on for $$$, you have to include the total current value of the tokens you received as income (rather than a capital gain). Looks like a good idea to claim early with this one. :-)