The Survival Instinct - Does it Exist?

in #suesascience7 years ago (edited)

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You hear it in wildlife documentaries, narrated by deep solemn voices that leave little room for doubt. You read it in articles hosted by universities. You see it in scientific opinion pieces, and you meet it in newspapers. PNAS (the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences) isn't afraid of using it, and if so, why should psychologists?

I'm talking about the survival instinct. Also known as the instinct of self-preservation. I will be arguing the thesis that the survival instinct is a misnomer, a misunderstanding, a misperception, a misbelief , a ... what do you call it ... a misconception!

Two birds, one stone*

*No relation to 2 Girls, 1 Cup - though bird can mean girl in UK English.

A secondary aim of this post will be to show that we can use philosophical methodology to learn things about the outside empirical world simply by studying the meanings of words. So I won't be linking to scientific literature. Much. Yes: good ol' armchair philosophizing! You know, the kind that mathematicians and theoretical physicists and theoretical biologists and theoretical everything do all the time. Nothing wrong with that. Linus Pauling worked out some of the structure of proteins while bedridden. Nothing wrong with that either. Hopefully by the time you've finished reading this, you'll agree.

Let's build an organism

I could just tell you how Nature does stuff (hint: Origin of Species), but wouldn't it be more interesting if we found out first-hand? Let's figure out how Nature did it, by doing it ourselves! Let's make an organism, built to survive!

Okay. So. How do you write a survival instinct into an organism? How do you program an organism to survive?

I know! Give it properties that will aid its survival. Let's go with a thick coat, strong long claws like an anteater's, Spiderman-like wall-scaling like a gecko, and ...

Wait a minute. If it has strong long claws, then it won't be able to use van der Waals forces to scale walls like a gecko. If it has a thick coat, it might do fine in cold climates, but it will be penalized the warmer the climate gets.

I know! My cats shed their fur when the climate adds Fahrenheits. So let's make our organism be a chameleon. Not the animal chameleon, silly you! A new chameleon that springs claws whenever it wants to destroy a termite mound, becomes a fish when it comes into contact with water, becomes a bird when it accidentally falls off a cliff. It's like The Crew 2!

There, we did it, an omni-adaptive organism!

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Either a gecko's foot, or a Greek mountza.

An omni-adaptive organism is expensive

Unfortunately, what we've described in the last section, will come at a cost. We actually have to pay for all those bells and whistles. They don't come attached along with the basic model.

Consider this: if the environment is stable - let's say it's always cold - an organism that only codes for a thick coat will outsurvive an organism that can also (also = more code) shed its coat when the climate gets hotter, because less coding means less genes means less expense means less maintenance.

Of course, we could just program the organism to shed the gene that makes it shed its coat, if the environment becomes stable.

"And what if the environment becomes unstable again?"

Got it covered! We'll just program the animal to get the gene back when... Oh. The organisms can't just pick the gene off the floor. It has to make it somehow all by itself.

Plus, there's no teleology in nature, and not only have we made ourselves a designer with all this, we've made ourselves an interventionist one.

Well, it's back to the drawing board.

But before we do that, let's throw in an unrelated picture so that readers assessing this article for boringness before committing to reading it will think it's less boring than it really is.

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"Oh, look, pictures! Worth reading!"

How to make an organism that will kick survival's butt - Part deux

I know what we need to do. We need to put ourselves behind a Rawlsian veil of ignorance.

Okay, a little background. Basically, the Rawlsian veil of ignorance is a way of ensuring the morality of a political system, by making you ignorant of your properties. So let's say you and everyone else sit around a table and try to decide on the best political system. It's just like regular democratic deciding, only difference is, you're ignorant of all your properties. Are you black? Are you white? Are you a woman? Are you a man? Are you an immigrant? Are you an oil tycoon? Are you a trans? Are you poor? Are you rich? Are you talented? Are you stupid? Are you happy? Are you sad? You know nothing. It will all be revealed to you only after you make your decisions. So this is supposed to lead to fairer law-making, or help you realize when your opinions are based solely on self-interest, race, sex, class, etc.

So, let's apply this to organism-making! We're situated behind the Rawlsian veil of ignorance. We know nothing about what the world out there is like. Cold climes? Warm climes? We're very ignoramus about those things. What we'd like to do, is build an organism that will be able to maximize survival whatever the world happens to be like.

So how do we do that?

Well, let's not pretend to be completely ignorant. Let's instead take a page out of ol' Darwin's Origin of Species. Or Dawkins' The Selfish Gene. But first, let's simplify the language.

Simplifying the language

Animals have lots of tendencies, instincts, behaviors, things they like to do. Fish go into panic mode when they're taken out of the water, cats go into panic mode when they're thrown into the water. Some animals like fruits. Other animals like meat. For short, I will refer to all these tendencies, instincts, behaviors, traits, etc., by the name values. Even the need to urinate will be called a value. You value urinating when the tank's full! Values are basically units of preferences or tendencies or behaviors that can be picked out and selected for or against by the process of natural selection. In this sense, even the color of your hair will be called a value, because Nature can pick it out and favor you or penalize you for it.

So. Values. How do make organisms survive in an environment we know nothing about? Well, we just create organisms with fluctuating values. (Fluctuating = randomly varying. Cf. the Dawkins quote: "Life results from the non-random survival of randomly varying replicators.") Doesn't matter how we do it. We make the copying process an unfaithful and error-prone one, so that every time you pass on your values to your offspring, there's a chance the value will be different (brown eyes become green eyes), and that might somehow be more in line with the changing environment. Or we create a big bulky star-sun that will emit radiation that will cause mutations in our "values" (genes). Doesn't matter. All that matters is that every time an organism procreates, there's a chance a mutation will occur, and there's a chance it will make its host better adapted to its environment than the earlier version.

Some more irrelevant pictures before we move on.

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Let's get them into a different position this time.

Success!

There it is! We did it! We created an organism that will survive! In other words, we created an organism with a ... a survival instinct? Wait a minute...

Does will survive = survival instinct? Every organism has values. Some survive, and some don't survive. But Natural Selection could easily pick any one of them. Does it mean that an instinct exists depending on what will happen in the future? Or does it mean all organisms have a survival instinct, and some survival instincts survive, and some do not survive? That's some second-order natural selecting right there!

Let's go over what we did for a second. We made an organism that will survive. Or at least we maximized its chances. How did we do that? We made it flexible. We didn't put fixed values in it (inflexible). We put fluctuating values (flexible/adaptable). Because of this, when the environment changes, a random mutation can find itself favored.

But note that the creature we made cannot alter its values at will in order to survive. It does not see water and immediately change into a fish. That was plan A, and we ditched plan A! It required a lot of expense and a conscious designer. An organism is still fixed, until it procreates. Mutations can appear in the next generation. But a given organism's allegiance is only to its values. It will never choose life over its values. Why? Because it can't! Life/Nature/Natural Selection will choose whether to favor or disfavor the organism's values. The organism can't have an instinct of self-preservation. Preservation is what natural selection does - it's the only thing it does - it's not up to the organism. The organism parades in front of the judge, it doesn't make the ruling, it cannot self-preserve. An organism just sticks to its value-guns, and then Life/Nature/Natural Selection decides whether to preserve or kill it. The newly hatched turtle will move toward the ocean whatever happens. It has this instinct: "live or die, I will move toward the ocean".

So it seems we have made an organism that survives, but does not have survival as its goal. Who knew: there's no teleology in nature! Everything can be explained by the past, the future need not enter into it.

Cause and consequence

Here's where I think the confusion lies. A factory, as a result of its work, produces smoke. That doesn't mean that the goal of the factory's operations is to produce smoke. The factory does not have an "instinct of producing smoke". It's a by-product of its real goal, which is, let's say, to make toys. (I know, toys for children and environmental pollution. I like contrast, what can I say.)

Similarly, because animals' values (behaviors, instincts, etc.) by and large and almost exclusively and with pin-point accuracy lead to survival, we are often fooled into thinking that survival must be the goal of these animals. It's a logical error - a fallacy, in fact - the same one Freud made when he observed that all living organisms die, therefore death must be the ultimate goal of every living being! (Instinct of death? Instinct of self-annihilation?)

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I guess he put a nail to that coffin.

I mean, is Freud wrong? If we're gonna call something a survival instinct simply because it has survived, it's only fair to call those instincts that didn't survive, death instincts. And if we do that, it's pretty clear which instincts are more prevalent. After all, 99% of all species that ever existed have gone extinct. It appears we're living in a world whose primary guiding force is death!

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That's steam, not steem. There's no way you can profit from this.

How do we survive, if survival isn't our goal?

Natural selection, female dog!

Nature selects (not consciously, of course!) those "values" that are more adaptive to the current environment, so that the end-impression is that those values aim at survival. Is a squirrel hoarding nuts because it's preparing for the winter? No it's not! That's an extra assumption! Squirrels who engaged in nut-hoarding behavior were selected by nature. That's all there is to it. No teleology necessary. A lion doesn't think about survival: it just likes the taste of fresh deer. And if that value of his wasn't good for survival (if, say, deer were poisonous), that lion would go extinct, and the lion that would survive would be the one that developed the mutation to avoid deer. Those two lions have different instincts/values, but they don't have different survival instincts. Nature's favoritism could have easily gone the other way. Truth is, the internal world and constitution of the lion that has gone extinct would be exactly the same even if it had survived. Whether or not the deer is poisonous or healthful determines whether the lion will survive, but it does not determine whether the lion has a survival instinct. Let's not confuse consequence with cause. Many investors would wish that only their winning investments were called investments, but unfortunately it's not the result that determines whether or not you made an investment. I can't wait for the ticket to win to claim I bought it afterwards. Organisms appear, they are what they are, and Life decides whether they'll survive. Everyone has bought their ticket, and we can't sell it back.

Consider this picture, relevant this time:

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Pictured are a moth with a Freudian death instinct and a moth with a biological survival instinct. Too bad it's one and the same moth: Biston betularia.

Study question: Do instincts come and go according to factory polution?

Study question 2: Are moths internally conflicted, or do they abide only by their values, which are then selected for or against by Life/Nature/Natural Selection?

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The worm and the hook and the fisherman

Jesus made his fame on parables. So let me try my hand at one. The parable of the worm and the hook and the fisherman! Who knows, maybe I'll inspire a cult.

Suppose humans have been made privy to an imminent massive poisoning of the world's seas and lakes, which will kill most of the world's marine life. In their attempt to save the world's marine life, governments pay fishermen a certain amount of money for every fish caught and kept alive. Being caught by the fishermen ensures the survival of the fish. If what the fish value is attached to the fisherman's hook, the fish will live. If not, they will die. But the mere fact that fish get caught on the hook does not mean that the fish aimed for the hook. The fish aimed for the worm - the thing attached to the hook. The fish didn't want the hook, they simply wanted to satisfy their hunger.

Unpacking the parable (that looks already half-unpacked), we get this:

The fisherman = Natural Selection
The hook = Survival
The worm = (the object the organism) Values

The fish cares about its hunger, not about the fisherman. Being caught by the fisherman (selected by Nature) is not the fish's goal. Its goal is to catch and eat the worm.

No organism cares about survival ("the hook")—but it may well happen to value things that lead to survival ("the worm").

End of parable.

Hmm. I think I'll have to do better than this if I'm ever to gain Jesus-status.

The parable of dogs playing fetch - another attempt at infinite fame

Imagine dogs playing "fetch" in a land where the ground is invisible. Every time a dog jumps it does not know whether it will land on solid ground or in a swamp that will devour it whole. All the dogs want to do is to catch flying sticks that are launched in different directions. The dogs have their preferences: some prefer sticks that are launched in a northerly direction, others prefer sticks that are launched in a southerly direction; some prefer longer sticks and others prefer shorter sticks; etc. When a dog leaps, it does not know whether it is leaping toward its death. Since the ground is invisible, no dog can aim for life (that is, no dog can aim for solid ground). They can only aim for sticks. Only after they have landed do we know whether they are standing on solid ground ("have survived"). This process of "leaping for the sticks" some prefer to describe as a "struggle for life" or a "struggle for survival." If these terms mean "the struggle to find solid ground" then I find them objectionable. If they mean "leaping for the sticks" then I embrace these terms.

There, lasting fame achieved.

Wait, is that a parable or an analogy? Let's compare it to something that's definitely an analogy.

The pigeon analogy

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To say that a certain animal exists because it has a survival instinct, is like saying that the white pigeon exists because it has an "I want to satisfy humans' color-preferences" instinct.

The human does the selecting, choosing which colors ("values") to preserve. The pigeon does not aim to get selected.

By using artificial selection, I make the wolf into a poodle. That doesn't mean wolves have a "poodle instinct". What natural selection does is select who will survive. That doesn't mean organisms have survival instincts.

*Note that the last three examples are not arguments. They are, rather, what Daniel Dennett calls intuition pumps.

Falsifiable?

It's perfectly possible to lack an instinct. I for example lack the instinct of spraying my urine on trees so that other humans passing by will know I was there. This makes the hypothesis that I have instinct X falsifiable. I.e. testable. Let's say I make the hypothesis that an animal has a flight (in the sense of fleeing) instinct: whenever it's attacked, it runs away. Let's formulate my hypothesis as an "if...then..." conditional statement: "if the animal is attacked, it will run away." So if the animal is attacked and does run away, that's evidence that my hypothesis is correct. If it's attacked and instead of fleeing, it fights, then my hypothesis is wrong, and the animal does not possess a flight instinct.

But what happens when we try to falsify a survival instinct? If the animal runs away, it's a survival instinct. If it stays and fights, again it's a survival instinct. It appears everything is a survival instinct! An unfalsifiable statement is anathema to science!

Did the Dodos lack a survival instinct when they curiously followed the sounds of gunshots and stepped over their dead relatives and stared into the barrel of a gun to see what was going on? What if humans had never visited them, would Dodos' survival instincts be vindicated? We can check whether Dodos have a curiosity instinct, a flight instinct, a fight instinct, a fear instinct - but how do we check whether they have a survival instinct?

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Why this misconception bothers me

Human brains are suckers for teleology. Darwin's theory of Natural Selection put a final end to any of that. Life is decidedly not teleological. In his chapter Struggle for Existence of The Origin of Species, Darwin says that he uses the term "Struggle for Existence" in a metaphorical sense. Take the examples Darwin uses right after this admission: it is clear that the canines are struggling for food, not survival; that the plant is struggling for light and water, not survival; etc.—Nowhere in nature is there any evidence of any struggle for life. (But it is true that beings may struggle for life: that is, for the duration of their life!)

However, some argue teleological language is unavoidable. That's why I take no issue with the words themselves - they could be serving some utility - as long as the people using them know they are only meant metaphorically.

All teleological terms can be replaced by causal terms. Doesn't mean they have to, but when we do use teleological language, we should be aware of it:

Teleological thinking conceals a (mistaken) linear concept of evolution, an evolutionary change endowed with an (unconfessed) functional essence. Terms like "function" and "purpose" (or "objective") can be replaced by terms such as "consequence" or "result," indicating an absence of direction. Evolutionary linearity and functionality lead to the underlying - and mistaken - notion that in the process of natural selection the survival of the species is more important than its elimination. The non-teleological, non-purposive characteristic of the theory of natural selection was brilliantly summarized by Stephen Jay Gould (1977, p.90): "Extinction is the fate of most species."

I'm the first one, as far as I know, to apply this teleology argument to the idea that survival instincts do not exist. Biologists, however, as can be seen from the quote, have been at it for a long time. I don't mind teleological language. What I do mind is teleological thinking. And, along with language, unfortunately, often the thinking creeps in. This is why I think this topic is important, and why this misconception bothers me.

And it's not just the sciences

This pervasive idea that organisms struggle for survival has misled thinkers from many disciplines, philosophers included. Nietzsche, for instance, did not realize that our separation from life is absolute and irreversible, and so he thought that the Christians alone were guilty of putting their values before their life. Truth is, like an animal who loves us only so long as we feed it, so we only love life so long as it coincides with our values. Otherwise, there will be nothing left to love. This error has also caused philosophers to overlook the role values play in ethics, in the meaning of life, in issues of personal identity, etc. It has surely affected the understanding of psychologists too. I will touch on some of this issues now.

So let's now walk away from science, and see how this new understanding of Life vs Values as I have presented it can help us make sense of some features of human life, like love of life, but also depression and suicide. Generally, what we call meaning in life. This will further underscore why getting the facts straight about teleology is important.

Life as a goal

"Are you saying life isn't our primary goal, or are you saying that it's utterly impossible to aim for survival?"

I'm saying it's utterly impossible! No evolutionary trait can be equated with survival. There is no necessary relation between value/trait/behavior A, B, C, etc. and survival, because survival is contingent upon circumstances: here survival is promoted by doing A, there by doing B, somewhere else by doing C.

It cannot be said that he who survives is "thus-and-thus" (say, is bulky and has a thick coat), because "thus-and-thus" is something particular and unchanging, whereas what one needs to be in order to survive varies depending on the circumstances. Thus, the properties one needs in order to survive in a given environment cannot be universalized: there cannot be any property that promotes survival always and everywhere.

You cannot aim for a priori survival, for it means nothing out of context. The concept of survival becomes meaningless when it is removed from a specific context. We have already seen that an organism is fixed. Everybody has made their bets. There's no bettors with a "winning instinct". There's a bet, and there's the result of the bet. That's it.

Life's guiding principle

If the will to life is life’s guiding principle, then it is one that can never be violated. This idea is contradicted by the facts, for it does not explain why so many people are willing to sacrifice their life for the sake of freedom or democracy or some other ideal. It is simply not true that man wants to live no matter what. In other words it is not true that man wants to live above all else or unconditionally. If we are looking for the meaning of life, or life's guiding force, then we are looking for something inviolable. Values satisfy the criterion of inviolability. Since man would rather abandon life than live under a regime that contradicts his values, it does not make much sense to claim that the will to life is the driving force behind all his actions. Rather, the will to maintain our current values is the strongest force in all life, and it comes before the so-called "will to life", as the existence of suicides conclusively demonstrates.

"But I love life!"

"Then you'd love to live as an E. Coli."

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After millions of years of evolution, valuing certain things (like sex and food) and surviving have become almost identical. The two paths meet, so it is easy to confuse them for the same path.

But tell any person that in order to live they will have to stop doing anything that gives their life its positive flavor, and they will revolt against life as passionately as if it were their most hated enemy! Thus is reached the apparently absurd—but entirely true—conclusion that nothing desires to live. This does not mean that any creature desires to die. It simply means that creatures do not care one way or the other. Now people will object, they will say things like: "But I do genuinely want to live: I want to travel to so many places, I want to meet interesting people, I want to learn new things, I want to see what the future holds in store." I will then simply point out that nothing of what they have just said has any necessary connection to life itself: one can die from traveling, die from meeting new people, die from having fun, etc. That one does not customarily die simply because one has met an interesting person is a fact (though people do die from germs after shaking people's hands), but it is a boring and irrelevant one. The point is that people do not want to live: they simply want to do things that are only accidentally—only contingently—associated with life and survival.

If life were indeed our sole goal and purpose, then we would value it in all its forms, and would find none of its forms objectionable. There would be no such thing as displeasure or suffering, so long as the need for survival were satisfied.

If I'm right, and life is only a vehicle for the realization of our values, then life would be desirable only so long as it promoted our values, and would cease to be desirable as soon as the opposite became the case. This is what we see happening in fact.

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We are our values

There is no caring for ourself over and above caring for the values that make up who we are. One cannot abandon one's values in order to save oneself, for there is no self to be saved after one's values have been abandoned.

Suicide vs survival

We feel betrayed when Nature no longer favors us. She used to cultivate our minds, helped them reach ever-greater subtleties of spirit. Investment determines the direction of growth. When Nature suddenly pulls out her resources the structure can no longer be sustained. It falls, loudly. Nature has changed her mind. She has built a road but no longer uses it. Our values and Nature no longer walk along the same path. She has chosen another, an opposite, direction. Now to follow our values means to walk away from life.

When we lose all hope it is useless for others to urge us "you have to keep going," "keep your chin up," "you have got to be strong." These are empty words, and unless translated into something concrete they will fail in their mission. No one cares about survival. A person comes equipped with certain tools, with a certain meaning. His environment either rewards or punishes his meaning. Say for instance that I enjoy eating plankton, and plankton helps me survive. Plankton is the meaning of my life. For a long time I eat plankton and I survive. But presently circumstances suddenly change, and there is a worldwide shortage of plankton. Now I feel my life no longer has meaning. It will not help one bit if someone tells me that despite the shortage of plankton I should find some other meaning in life, for my body is so constituted that I can only live eating plankton. My stomach cannot process any other food, nor can my mind take pleasure from any other taste. I never longed for survival: I longed for plankton. Without plankton, life has no meaning to me. I hope you all get the metaphor.

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Why we sometimes give up a value

Whenever life opposes a value, it is not the value that loses its significance or meaning, but life. Life no longer relates positively to our values, so we cease to care about it.

But there are circumstances under which a value that is opposed by life does lose its significance and is abandoned as a result, and that is when the value conflicts with other, more important or more numerous, values; or else when, even in the absence of direct conflict, it is still the case that in order to save the many one has to sacrifice the few. But such "utilitarian" reasoning should not be confused with our preferring life over value.

Again, a metaphor: The centipede will rather part with one of its legs than die. Some will say it chose to live and be crippled rather than die. I say it chose to lose one leg rather than one hundred.

So in instances where we seem to choose life over value, in fact we choose the many over the one (we sacrifice a lesser number of cherished values for the sake of a greater number of cherished values), or the more important over the less important (we sacrifice an item of smaller value in order to salvage an item of greater value).

Curtain

This is my entry for @suesa's challenge. Check it out here: https://steemit.com/science/@suesa/suesa-s-science-challenge-2

Study questions

or comment prompts

  1. What do you think, is armchair thinking worthwhile? I'd venture that even field scientists are actually just thinking most of the time!

  2. Do you agree that the survival instinct does not exist? If not, can you point out an example of a survival instinct that (a) is not just another instinct and (b) merits the term "survival" instead of, let's see, any other word from the dictionary?

  3. Is the term "survival instinct" a scientific concept? Is it falsifiable? How would we go about proving that a certain organism lacks it? Can this instinct be studied under lab conditions?

  4. The instinct that makes turtles go for the ocean is to be found in their brains, in their DNA, etc. Where is the survival instinct to be found? Do some of these turtles have a stronger survival instinct than others? If a turtle goes the wrong way, does it have a damaged survival instinct? If that wrong way proves to be a good roundabout way of reaching the ocean while avoiding the predators that lie in wait at the beach, and if this mutated turtle subsequently has more offspring and its wacky instinct spreads, has it then proved that in fact not only did it possess a survival instinct, but in fact possessed it in droves, and that it was the other turtles that had a damaged survival instinct?

  5. It is possible to use artificial selection to make an instinct stronger. (a) Describe an experiment whereby you strengthen an animal's survival instinct using artificial selection. (b) Explain why strengthening the exact opposite quality to the one you strengthened in (a) would not also count as a strengthening of the animal's survival instinct.

  6. I once quipped, "What is a survival instinct? It's an instinct that has survived." Do you think there's more to the survival instinct than that?

  7. Natural selection can explain all of life as we know it. It's the only theory that explains the presence of life, "the only game in town" as Richard Dawkins called it. How do you think the instinct of survival relates to the theory of natural selection? Is it the same theory rebaptized? Is it an additional force that gives further impetus to organisms to survive (thus making it "two games in town")? If an organism lacks a survival instinct, and another one possesses it, does Natural Selection look more favorably upon the latter? Is it Nature's way of lowering her workload, because she got so tired of selecting organisms manually, that she decided to put an instinct of survival inside the organisms, an instinct that would do her work for her, while she followed her true calling in life, to be a ballerina?

  8. Do you think @suesa's challenge will get a weirder more unorthodox or longer entry than this one?

Sources

The first pic is modified from this. The quote is modified as well. It's my translation of a translation into Greek by Aris Dikteos, whose translation of Zarathustra is my favorite one. Here's his wiki in Greek. The English translation by Graham Parks for Oxford's World Classics reads "Only, where Life is, there too is will: though not will to life, but–thus I teach you–will to power!" Nietzsche was basically contrasting his theory of Will to Power to Schopenhauer's Will to Life. The quote bears no relation to the survival instinct, but is the result of me simply trying to find statements that can, out of context, serve as epigrams for my ideas.

The other Nietzsche quote is from his Will to Power, as translated by Walter Kaufmann. [The Will to Power. Trans. Walter Kaufmann and R. J. Hollingdale. New York: Vintage Books, 1967.] What did Nietzsche mean exactly? The quote starts with him accusing physiologists not of inventing a useless term, but of positing it as a cardinal drive. And then in the very second sentence he talks about it as completely superfluous. Was Nietzsche just brainstorming? The note wasn't published, after all. Will to Power is a collection of unpublished notes, and it was compiled by Nietzsche's Nazi sister, and heavily edited and possibly altered to agree with Nazi ideology. Another quote from Zarathustra, this time a published work, reads: "the living creature values many things higher than life itself", lending credence to the interpretation that Nietzsche didn't think self-preservation was completely impossible (like I do), but merely not a cardinal drive. At any rate, Nietzsche didn't expand on these thoughts. These couple quotes are as much as you're going to get from him.

Gecko's foot

Leaf frog.

Stretching frog.

The image source for Freud's quote is this, and the book source is Anthony Storr's Freud: A Very Short Introduction. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2001, p. 66.

Moths. Modified.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:(1931)Peppered_Moth(Biston_betularia)_(14308485779).jpg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Biston_betularia(js)01_Lodz(Poland).jpg

White pigeon, also known as a dove.

Karl Popper. Modified. Quote is from his book The Logic of Scientific Discovery.

The quote that mentions Stephen Jay Gould is from:
Ribeiro, Manuel Gustavo Leitão, Larentis, Ariane Leites, Caldas, Lúcio Ayres, Garcia, Tomás Coelho, Terra, Letícia Labati, Herbst, Marcelo Hawrylak, & Almeida, Rodrigo Volcan. (2015). On the debate about teleology in biology: the notion of "teleological obstacle". História, Ciências, Saúde-Manguinhos, 22(4), 1321-1333. Epub January 16, 2015. https://dx.doi.org/10.1590/S0104-59702015005000003

What you wouldn't mind being if you really valued survival above all else. Come on, the right buttock can be a perfect place to live!

The orange pics are my own words made with quozio.com.

There's a quote in the movie The Holy Mountain that says "The fish thinks about its hunger, not about the fisherman." It's a comment on selfishness and capitalism, not survival, but, like I said, I like to illustrate my ideas with irrelevant quotes. Though I didn't with this one cos I couldn't find a Holy Mountain pic with a free license!

Once-upon-a-time-there-.jpg

Still working on my parables.


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The entire post is an accumulation of vendettas/arguments that you have amassed throughout the years by taking part in Cyprus Freethinkers by going against me. It centers around the publication of your Book in 2011 "The meaning of life" which again came right after you lost some arguments about the topic. You had no idea about the entire topic before. You still don't. ps. You are defending the popular view, the non-scientific one.

The constant references about how much you study science and life are false, hence the same argument that you made in the group 6 years ago. They remain the same and they are repeated with the same falsehood. You are trying to establish credibility (by vouching for yourself) when your explanation reveals that you have no understanding of biology. none. You rather copy-paste similar concepts that you can find in books of Dawkins (see moths) spinning it into rhetorics in order to make a point. To those who have read the books this looks very much like a cheap intellectual fraud. I noted before how you do this in almost all your posts. The moth simply did not have enough time to adapt to the new environment. It's instincts fell short. Is that simple.

I am actually honored that more that half your posts, including this one, are an intellectual vendetta that you have with me for so many years (even made you to write a book) but as a biologist has pointed out to you, you are wrong. At least have the guts to admit it and don't try to excuse it through something different. There is evidence that instincts exist. Plenty.

I understand you are trying to defend that there is some meaning in life, some answers. It is your "job" as a philosopher and the first "front" to fall in order for you to make a case and excuse the wasted ink in your book is to deny instincts.

I also understand that you are trying to attach some credibility to your arguments (as I had adviced 6 year ago for you to study science) but your arguments and views (and understanding of biology) have remained much the same. Being part of steemstem and taking part in science competitions does not make you scientifically literate. It just makes you a suck up, trying to make your way into a domain in order to sell your crap as valid. You understood that in 2011 when you were going against scientists that no knowledge in science takes you nowhere. Instead of studying though you decided to just fake it. Classy.

To demonstrate this, 3 simple words could have saved you from all the trouble if you actually studied biology. This is a concept that you cannot catch through youtube videos and pop-sci books but zoologists know very well.

Fixed action pattern

It can be studied, falsified, reproduced and explain everything about survival instincts. It is biology 101, proving once more that you just claim to understand science for the sake of credibility while writing senseless bullshit to work around your argument.

Here is more detailed a post addressing your nonsense rhetorics.

https://steemit.com/biology/@kyriacos/life-is-data-survival-instincts-and-their-role-in-preserving-life

Dog bless the blockchain for the eternal track record it provides.

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OK I just checked my friend list.

friends.JPG

The first two people I added that had anything to do with CFT, and that I could only have met through CFT, are the two above. So clearly I was a member of CFT before I published the book.

But if you know anything about anything, you know how long it takes to write something like that! I know for a fact I was writing the book when I met my girlfriend of that time, and I had met her 3 months before I joined CFT (if the dates above are to be trusted). The book was practically finished. I spent a lot of time formatting it and checking out publishers and so on before I settled on self-publishing.

Anyway, the idea that I published the book after that discussion about the survival instincts is thoroughly debunked. The idea that I stole everything from CFT has not been debunked, at least not from your perspective, no matter how ridiculous it is. First of all, no one on CFT shared my opinions! No one ever even thought my thoughts, much less agree with me!! No one would believe that I got my ideas from there, except you!

But you are a person of ridiculous and paranoid beliefs, so what else could one expect from you.

Ask anyone who was ever a member of CFT, which one of their ideas did I steal?! Heck, ask yourself!! We disagree about most things!

No one ever said anything that remotely sounded like what I was saying there. Even my arguments against God were philosophical in nature whereas yours where anthropological (i.e. not real conclusive proof). I remember when I posted my first article on the CFT website, against free will, I realized you didn't have an opinion on the subject. It's one of the (probably many) things you learned from me :P, and now capitalize from! Or at least one of the many many many things I knew about 5 years before you even got an inkling about them.

Lastly, the dates above don't mean I was active on CFT. Generally, I would like it if there was a way to retrieve everything from CFT, all our posts there. That would settle everything.

You forget to tell your audience that Cft was one the first facebook groups and that you joined and left again and again. Your screenshots are irrelevant. They don't prove anything. They just show your friend connections which in a small place like Cyprus are irrelevant. You yourself admitted that you like Varnavas posts which he admits that he copies me. (we are talking to the exact letter). This is how you got your ideas and through your following you were watching what was going in CFT because it was an open group. Again. You were anti-science. Now you are balls deep in "Steemstem". funny really.

But if you know anything about anything, you know how long it takes to write something like that! I know for a fact I was writing the book when I met my girlfriend of that time, and I had met her 3 months before I joined CFT (if the dates above are to be trusted). The book was practically finished. I spent a lot of time formatting it and checking out publishers and so on before I settled on self-publishing.

It wasn't. And from what a friend told me who bought it,,..it is not a book. it is pamphlet with chapters resembling copy-paste things from long conversations...including CFT. they don't follow up.

Anyway, the idea that I published the book after that discussion about the survival instincts is thoroughly debunked.

You have this idea that if you repeat a lie enough times people will believe you are correct. You didn't debunk shit. It was an open group in 2011. You could comment without joining. you could see without joining and most importantly you could follow conversations on your feed. You copy pasted everything to make a quick back on ideas that weren't yours.

Ask anyone who was ever a member of CFT, which one of their ideas did I steal?! Heck, ask yourself!! We disagree about most things!

Mine for the most part. You took all the perspectives on atheism, nihilism, etc and spinned it into a farce to answer about the meaning of life. You are a fraud. a bad one nonetheless.

No one ever said anything that remotely sounded like what I was saying there. Even my arguments against God were philosophical in nature whereas yours where anthropological (i.e. not real conclusive proof). I remember when I posted my first article on the CFT website, against free will, I realized you didn't have an opinion on the subject. It's one of the (probably many) things you learned from me :P, and now capitalize from! Or at least one of the many many many things I knew about 5 years before you even got an inkling about them.

I didn't comment on free will because it is pretty clear it does not exist. And I debate free will Dawkins directly when i was a member of another philosophy group "FJC" in 2010. Again. You have been trailing all along.

Lastly, the dates above don't mean I was active on CFT. Generally, I would like it if there was a way to retrieve everything from CFT, all our posts there. That would settle everything.

I wish there was a way but the only proof I have is other people. Mainly Marc, a biologist and zoologist that debunked your entire shit while you run crying, never to come back again, but closely stealing ideas for your book.

You do the same shit all the time. see moths. Every single post your make steals from others while you boast that they are your ideas. pathetic.

Keep up the fraudulent work. There are lots of scammers in here. You will be camouflaged fairly well.

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First private conversation with Harris that references the survival instinct, it's evident the conversation just started and Marc just got into it: 10 Aug 2011.

Book published March 2011 (and the journal entries on which it's based go back at least 5 years, as do conversations with friends who I don't wanna drag into this).

I can also confirm this via Ioulia, IF you remember that the whole convo started from a post on the CFT website. I have the post. But the CFT page doesn't have it anymore, so I can't date it.

Have we settled this?

Furthermore, I BELIEVE (but can't be sure), that, even though I had added Varnavas before publishing the book, I suspect I wasn't very active. Again, I think Harris was one of my first acquaintances on CFT.

So, until further evidence is presented, I believe I only REALLY joined CFT after publishing the book.

I understand very well there's ways I could've stalked the group before that. But let's try and keep this conversation rational. For example, even if I provide proof that I only joined CFT on x date, or only made my first comment on x date, you could easily just say something paranoid like "but the group existed from x-1 date, and you could've been part of the group under a fake fb account".

At that point I'll just start repeating "you need to see a doctor".

And of course friendships prove quite a lot. You think I was rejecting people's friendships because I didn't want proof that I was getting all my ideas from CFT? I'm not a survival instinct, I can't think that far ahead ;)

My current theory is Mark just told you something wrong and you believed it because you like to believe bad things about people. Your whole idea that I stole things from CFT is based on this: someone bought the book, saw things that reminded them of conversations I started on fb, got the causality backwards because checking dates is difficult for scientists of Marc's caliber, and so your paranoia got its much-needed food.

In general, I suggest we keep personal accusations on the level of "if you ain't got no proof, don't go shit-talking".

That's because I think evidence is the only way you can keep paranoid people at bay. It's not your fault. Your mind just constantly tries to think bad things about people. Unless that tendency is rained in by proof, it will always do its thing, you have no control over it. Proof acts like a fence.

Have we at least settled the above issue? Do you admit you were wrong about that? Come on, gimme those 3 words! :P

Your evidence is not evidence. There is no evidence unfortunately.

So, until further evidence is presented, I believe I only REALLY joined CFT after publishing the book.

hahaha. you didn't even need to "join" back then idiot. you could write comments and watch topics at will. you got most of the content from proxies since half of cyprus was in cft. it was one of the first groups and most popular.

My current theory is Mark just told you something wrong and you believed it because you like to believe bad things about people.

i actually don't . i can sniff out the bullshiters like you. that;'s all. so far i did what i did to you to 4-5 people. the bullshiters. master manipulators that made the mistake to step into my perspective.

"if you ain't got no proof, don't go shit-talking".

actually i won't because almost all of your posts revolve around one debate. that's fucked up from your past. talk about intellectual austerity mate. ...pathetic

No comment on the personal drama, but in terms of the ideas, I'm inclined to agree with kyriacos more.

I think Alexander is misusing Nietzsche and Popper here. Nietzsche's view was very evolutionary. Our values aren't valuable in themselves, but are heuristics derived from increased probability of survival.

https://medium.com/incerto/how-to-be-rational-about-rationality-432e96dd4d1a

This is a relevant read, because Taleb was greatly influenced by both Nietzsche and Popper, and he claims that the meaning of life is survival.

Super interesting post.

What are your thoughts on autopoiesis as a theory of the biological "life world". All the talk of value reminds of also of ecological psychology and "affordances". Heidegger talked about organisms "caring" vs rocks which do not have a care-structure and do not live in a lifeworld.

Great post :)

Autopoiesis can be ascribed to anything, as long as you're willing to expand the circle sufficiently to include things that all combined can seem self-sustaining. But unless we're talking about perpetual motion machines, eventually something from outside is gonna have to come in.

Affordances I can't comment on. I just googled it. It reminds me of my theory of use somewhat.

Heidegger has some interesting thoughts that again remind me of some of my own ideas that I called the theory of use. I haven't read him much, and what I have read I hardly understand! He also sometimes strikes me as maybe a bit of a con artist of sorts! I mean the kind of things Schopenhauer used to say against Hegel. Mazes of words made to impress but that carry little meaning. I remember when I read his Introduction to Metaphysics, every single translation from Greek was utterly wrong! Like sometimes there wasn't a word in common! Calling it an idiosyncratic translation doesn't begin to describe what he did! It was basically his own thoughts! Highly weird! But I see value in him and I'd like to read more of him in the future.

Thanks for the comment and for reading )

Woo, that's a long post! Good one, though.

I've often had trouble with philosophy's attempts to interact with science- for every Thomas Kuhn or Karl Popper or Paul Feyerabend, you have a dozen philosophers claiming philosophy's dominion over science, or misinterpreting science for their own ends (philosophers are as bad as hippies when it comes to quantum mechanics), or pretending that all science operates the same as physics (Heidegger). You've actually managed to walk the line between science and philosophy pretty well, though. Color me convinced of your thesis- I'll be removing survival instinct from my vocabulary!

I don't even pretend to understand what Heidegger is saying most of the time! :P

Yeah, long post, worried very few are gonna read it because of that!

I appreciate that you did! And furthermore you were convinced! Yippee! I'm sure my brain just made a couple dopamine molecules!

The situation in philosophy isn't that different from other disciplines, I'd say. How many experiments in medicine yield promising results, and how many fail? So 1 in 12 I can very well live with! :P To have so many philosophers who actually contribute something to science (Karl Popper being another big figure) is a pretty good track record to me.

Using the vocabulary of survival and self-preservation, or capitalizing the word Nature and giving her a gender and saying she selects, etc., isn't bad as long as you know what you're doing. Problem is when people take these terms literally, usually people not versed in biology.

Taking any metaphorics literally is asking for trouble, and yet people do it constantly. (Economists especially.)

I'm wading through Heidegger's Question Concerning Technology, but it's slow going.

Yeah the problem with metaphors, is you think they're harmless, but then you realize it's the reason people couldn't get around an issue, or were switching back and forth between using the metaphor literally and using it metaphorically, and sowing confusion when they thought they were being clear. Many examples both in science and philosophy of people doing that.

I think in sciences that have a big theoretical component, like biology, just-so stories and what not, there should be classes on what's a literal and what's not!

Only books of Heidegger's I read if I recall are Introduction to Metaphysics and Being and Time. He gets all the ancient Greek translations wrong! Like he's not even translating the same text, that's how wrong I mean. They're highly idiosyncratic translations to say the least. The editors should provide a conventional translation in footnotes, because all that's lost on foreign readers.

Wish you luck with the book!

Thanks, I'll need it!

And yeah, I've known plenty of people who just get trapped by metaphors in exactly that way, so I've heavily cut back on their use when describing scientific concepts.

that was one heck of a post!

I tried to keep it short! :P

Great work @alexander.alexis very interesting pigeon analogy.

You're a quick reader!

Hope you are open to constructive criticism. It was long, I read it all (although I must honestly admit I skim/scanned a bit, sorry :-) but I would be much more likely to read/respond (assuming that is what you want) if there were logical sections I could respond to individually.

I enjoyed the humor.

The DESIRE to survive can only apply to self-conscious beings, all else is pleasure attraction/pain(displeasure) avoidance.

Adaptability is the key - "life" is adaptation: Environment cold? conserve heat. Environment hot? shed heat. Dry? drink never. Wet? drink always. Etc.

Life IS adaptation (to present conditions). If it cannot/doesnot adapt to (EVER)changing conditions, it will not propagate.

Just my personal O :-)

I'm open to criticism yes! )

I understand everything you said. And yeah skimming in this case is only natural!

I tried to approach the issue by attacking it from many angles, and hopefully the reader will get what I'm saying by combining all these different ways of putting it (some analogy, some argument, some stories about dogs and moths). What you'd like is a more formal/structured/scientific argument, something you can get a grip on, something less slimy! That's understandable!

Adaptability is the key - "life" is adaptation: Environment cold? conserve heat. Environment hot? shed heat. Dry? drink never. Wet? drink always. Etc.
Life IS adaptation (to present conditions). If it cannot/doesnot adapt to (EVER)changing conditions, it will not propagate.

Your use of adaptation here is a bit like the survival instinct! The only thing that life (organisms) contain that can be likened to adaptation, is their imperfect copying mechanisms: DNA doesn't always copy itself absolutely faithfully. Because of this, certain (very few) mutations that result end up being better adapted to a changing environment, or even a stable one.

An organism never says "Environment cold? conserve heat." It can't change itself that way. If it's not well adapted, it will simply die. But if it's adapted well-enough - well-enough to procreate - it will produce copies of itself that may be better adapted (because of random mutations) to the environment.

Of course, by "life" you could have meant a whole series of organisms, a plurality, the whole rather than the parts. But that's too metaphorical an entity to assess whether we can equate it with adaptation!

Hell, even my comments are long! :P

Thanks for reading!

My use of life (as a general principle) as adaptation is the opposite of "survival instinct" (in the individual).

As you note, a (non-self-aware) organism is incapable of formulating such a goal - there is only pain avoidance and pleasure approach (pick your terms - EVERY organism has a means of apprehending and responding to its environment).

It is LIFE that adapts. The individual (organism, species, etc) is just . . . a tool and if one tool is not up to the job (of adapting to its EVER (usually slow) changing environment) another is "selected" (by that environment) until eventually (one might assume :-), the perfect adaptation engine is produced.

In the same manner the big bang eventually "produced" hydrogen (and the other elements, and then molecules, and then ...) - everything that can be tried/combined is tried until only that which works - given the true nature of the universe - falls out (survives to tell the tale).

It is hard to talk intelligently about such things without using terms that SEEM like anthropomorphizations :-) I am not sure the "big bang" is capable of "trying" to do anything but it is easier than saying "shit was all bent, feld, spindled, shaken, stirred, mutilated and pressed together until certain stuff stuck together better than other stuff" :-)

Exactly. And sometimes those anthropomorphizations, that we employ consciously and think there's no harm in that, lead us into errors of thinking. We can't stop using them, but we should always be on our guard against all metaphors and such.

Life can adapt to environmental changes in limited degrees. The Darwinian conception of evolution, in which genetic traits incrementally change or "progress" towards improved adaptation has been challenged 50 years ago by "Punctuated Equilibrium" of Eldrige and Gould. Darwin's theories were likely influenced by perceptual matrix of Western thoughts of Alchemy, Platonic duality, and Christianity to assume that change has directional purpose.

Life merely exists. To impute a purpose like survival to life behavior, as the OP writes, reveals more about the belief system of thle theorist, rather than objective reality.

A scientific approach to values and principles! You make a very convincing argument for values over life. Some think that parables were used in the Bible by Jesus and the prophets as a subtle attack against institutions and authorities. In that vein, your use of parables in this post are not only appropriate but Biblical.

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Great post..very insteresting post..thanks

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