A randomized body of values and a little more luck

in #steem5 years ago

Do you know those people who go to the gym but only work the "show muscles", the chest, arms and back - but forget the legs? You know the type or at least, can imagine the kind that I am talking about. What happens though is that the body gets out of balance and this is especially true for those who only do gym work without having it for any practical purpose, like a sport. Someone who plays a sport will train for and the sport will support the body that gets the most out of performance. You don't see many skinny offensive football linemen and you don't see many 350 pound Olympic divers.

But for "everyday usage", the body performs the best when there is a balance between muscle groups where there is good distribution and strength, without any part overpowering the other. There is also the other factors involved for a human body to perform well with nervous system, psyche, attitude, emotions etc all playing a part.

The best performing people on earth are the ones who can find a balance that suits them and while there are very good guidelines to get started, the fine-tuning of the process falls onto the shoulders of the person themselves. However, if that person focuses too heavily on any one point for whatever reason, the other groups will suffer and the entire body will perform poorly. For example, a person who chooses to keep their fat percentage down could be healthy, but someone who obsesses over it to the point that is all they do is likely not - anorexia is not likely the condition of optimal performance.

So, where is this going?

Well, I have noticed some people who are looking at the Economic Improvement Proposal (EIP) as individual factors without looking at it in it's entirety. For example, the three main points are;

  1. 50/50 reward distribution,
  2. convergent linear curve
  3. downvote pool (free flags)

As individual components, it is very easy to have valid arguments against each of these positions. It is easy to argue that 50/50 where 50% goes to curators takes away from contributors, convergent linear harms the smallest accounts, or free downvotes give rise to increased toxicity.

However, this is a "dishonest" appraisal if they are going to be introduced simultaneously as each has an influence on the system in some way and each component is going to influence the other components in the group, and affect behavior of the community as a whole and various actors within it.

Every change creates a compounding effect of changes and the complexity for prediction is very difficult. What this means is that most people will have a look at it with an "all things remaining equal" mindset when by definition, change means that not all things are going to remain equal. But because human aren't great at predicting future complexity, we simplify it down into ways we can understand it and that is usually from the perspective we know and, we take the position that will benefit us the most as like it or not, people are people and they will maximize in one way or another.

Maximization on Steem doesn't have to be the maximization of Steem coins themselves, it can also be the maximization of attention or for many, sympathy. Just because you might not self-vote or sell-votes or whatever you disagree with, it doesn't mean that you aren't maximizing your position in some way, especially if you feel the need to announce that you aren't doing these things. Good behavior doesn't require a reward to be good, but recognition in itself is a type of reward and seeking it is looking to maximize the reward value of it.

This isn't an attack or a judgement on various behaviors I see and probably take part in, it is just a reminder that people are people and will act to maximize their position in what they consider has value. Many of those who do announce their position and regardless of their action, still want Steem as a reward for their behavior too, which is why the whales get so much flack for not rewarding good behavior by those who consider themselves good actors.

Personally, I am in favor of the EIP because it brings uncertainty back into the Steem ecosystem and also increases the probability of "getting lucky", something everyone enjoys. Even when the very first bidbot was launched back in 2017 (@randowhale), @berniesanders understood the attraction and importance of luck and risk, and buyers had the potential to lose a bit but, there was also the potential to get a very overpowered vote on a randomized algorithm - kind of like winning the lottery. While in those days the votes were lower, people actually had fun with bidbots.

This type of randomization, chance and risk needs to be reintroduced into Steem because, it has got altogether too safe for certain behaviors and, those behaviors are not necessarily the ones that scream, healthy community. At the moment, there is very little chance of getting downvoted for an over-priced post boosted into trending because there is both no economic incentive to do so and it is actually an opportunity cost, and there is incentive to delegate to the bots that are doing the voting.

Once there are free downvotes, that changes as there is risk for those who buy, this in turn creates risk of maximization of ROI on those who sell and with 50/50 curation there is a closing of the gap between selling and curating directly. So, if there are large buyers knocked down to the point they won't buy anymore, that is potential Steem in the pool for distribution to others.

If, there are some percentage of people still willing to sell for a lower ROI, this means that there is more in the pool too and, for those who remove delegations to start voting directly again, there is more eyes on contributors. With a convergent linear curve, while there will be a lot of small accounts trimmed, there is added eyes on who are the real contributors and creators, more SP backing them and, more SP in the pool because BS buys are being downvoted, changing buy behavior.

Is this the way it will play out? I don't know precisely but I do know that looking at each factor independently and then putting those parts together is not the way it is going to play out as they aren't factoring in all factors, not even the known ones like these three points. How I see it is that is hard to precisely predict what is going to happen which means it is hard to maximize ROI and community driven downvoting incentive will mean that there is always variation in how much is getting allocated from and, how much is getting returned to the pool.

With so many people taking different approaches ad with different focuses on their Steem experience, in a dynamic environment that has reintroduced chance, luck and independent action, it is going to make for a more balanced system as it will be less clear what approach is going to reap the best returns. Yes, some people are likely to be better at it than others but, that is the way it always will be. The ones who will be the best are likely to also be the ones who chose to train their understanding o the ecosystem at various points and this will likely amount to a more balanced approach between creation, investing and taking on a community position.

Our ability to evolve as a species is aided heavily by randomization and while so many people are certain of the outcome, it will be those who are sensitive to the changes and adapt with them that will come out the best off. Most likely, it will mean cross-training and building a body of value that has diversity in the approach. Be an investor, a contributor, a community builder, a consumer and what I see as the most important part of the randomization effect of the EIP, someone who takes the responsibility to keep their interest areas free of abuse. Whatever that means to you.

I have thought a fair bit about what the EIP might do for the environment and I think that the pros outweigh the cons. I also don't know what the best approach is going to be at any of the various levels, I don't even know really what changes I would make for myself.

I find that, very interesting.

Taraz
[ a Steem original ]

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Do not chuck babies to work out.

I ran out of bathwater.

Economics have always been my worst subject at school, and I can compensate a little by thinking 'psychology' but it's still too abstract and complex for me to get to a definitive opinion on the subject. I've been going from 'this is GOOD!', to 'Steem will suck!' to 'Hmmm - might not be so bad' and everything in between. It still changes with every post I read, because most posts make sense even if they have different viewpoints.

Anyway.

I liked reading this one :-) Thanks.

I've been going from 'this is GOOD!', to 'Steem will suck!' to 'Hmmm - might not be so bad' and everything in between. It still changes with every post I read, because most posts make sense even if they have different viewpoints.

From a psychological standpoint, isn't this interesting? It is a hard one to pin down and I think it is because of the complexity and inter-related components all affecting each other. This means that there will likely be many approaches to game it with some having more successful parts over others, but deficiencies in other parts over others. At the moment, there isn't a lot of question over best approach to maximize and it isn't great for the community.

A little random can be fun :)

It is crazy complex and indeed so much is inter-related... It's like saying one item of food is bad for you without looking at the whole diet... And the body type of the person... And the gut bacteria... And the environment they live in... And the rest of their dietary habits... And their race and age and - well, you get the point.

All I know for sure is people are creative and there will always be people who are gaming the system. The interesting thing is to find out if we can find a sweet spot where there's less gaming the system and more 'distribution as intended'. I don't believe in flawless systems but optimizing is the goal.

Yes, random can be fun - at least we'll learn some more - again.

well, you get the point.

better than you realise :)

All I know for sure is people are creative and there will always be people who are gaming the system.

The trick is to make the maximization game beneficial to the community and the self. Currently it is a bit lopsided. I think that #palnet is a good example of the future potential and part of the balancing process with much more variation to come. It throws in more random and a lot more learning.

better than you realise :)

<3

as someone who watches people with a academic degree do you see that majority of steemians will start to downvote just because it is free?

i feel that EIP is heavily dependent on downvote pool (free flags). and i don't see that people will go crazy on downvotes.

@tarazkp hope the kido is doing better.
also nice perspective on the photo to make a point :D

I think we have a LOT of unlearning to do - Downvoting is seen as a negative, so that won't suddenly turn into a positive. But I've also seen people say 'Can't wait to freely start downvoting...' - and one certain name keeps popping up, which is interesting, since this is a 'good' Steemian but still people are annoyed by their post payout.

So it certainly will change something.

Maybe pooling the free downvotes like on steemflagrewards will also make it so that there's basically a new 'whale' downvoting very over-rewarded posts.

But as I said: unlearning. We learned to hate downvotes and will have to start 'appreciating' them.

unlearning will be a bit thing. i feel i need to unlearn a lot :D

i just got to SP where i can vote on people that engage on my posts, and now i will need to unlearn, and i feel that i am most pissed about that :D

Why do you need to unlearn voting on comments? :D

You have a right to be pissed, maybe I'll create a Steem Therapy account for hf21 :-)

because of my high SP and change in the curve

that is not a bad idea :D and you say you hated economics :P

Do you know those people who go to the gym but only work the "show muscles", the chest, arms and back - but forget the legs?

Yeah I know them. I've indeed, I'm actually very much seen them!!
Over here in my town we call them 'Chanparitos' (cuerpos de chancho y piernas de pajarito) };)

ChickenLegs.jpg

And as an author, this is precisely what does not make me very optimistic with the 50/50 part of the EIP proposal.

I firmly believe that the 'Chicken Legs' that desperately need to be strengthened here, first of all and above all, are the READING capabilities of the self-proclaimed CURATORS.

Because if they still forget to exercise and strengthen "their chicken legs" in that READING department. I assure you they will receive tens of thousands kicks on their pitiful little 'chicken ass' by an equal amount of chicken legged authors with lower sp.

Steem is decentralizing and the earning streams are also. Relying solely on Steem itself as a creator is not likely to be the best way to go. The use case is changing and the earners are arriving, like palnet.io Tried it yet? Might turn into something interesting, who knows :)

Tried it yet?

Yep! I've already tried palnet. I've already snooped and wandered inside, experimented a bit and kicked the Scotbot out of there. That last experiment was kinda funny. Now I'm awaiting for the Claimdrop. ;)

Relying solely on Steem itself as a creator is not likely to be the best way to go.

Yeah, I know that very well. But I'm just expecting that once established the EIP and everything else included within the HF21, that absolutely no one can be able to 'vote' unless they click to open & deploy fully the author's content in their browsers and then, had first interacted leaving a thoughtful, coherent and "relevant" comment before voting!! };)

But I'm just expecting that once established the EIP and everything else included within the HF21, that absolutely no one can be able to 'vote' unless they click to open & deploy fully the author's content in their browsers and then, had first interacted leaving a thoughtful, coherent and "relevant" comment before voting!! };)

Good luck :D

I do think that there will be an increase in traffic but it still depends on relationships and the like. There is still no way most large accounts will read all the content they vote on and if they only voted what they read, it would stay in a very tight circle.

Well, that's the dream!! mine at least. Haha

Otherwise, they can quickly go to fuck their pets if they dare to call themselves CURATORS one more time. };)

Same here... Some changebis m
needed so why not try! I will have no idea how to change at first but like I figured out things a year ago, I will do so again as well as many others. In addition, it seems that the community of Dolphins and Minnows are more open now to help others than in the past.

Posted using Partiko iOS

I figured out things a year ago, I will do so again as well as many others.

I am looking forward to the rediscovery.

Dolphins and Minnows are more open now to help others than in the past.

And many bought in and powered up so are taking a wider stance on their connection. Will be interesting to see if the *community' responds rather than the expectation on whales.

I have been keeping notes from your posts. I can’t grasp them now, but later we will go through them
Hahaha. I have been updating it to delete the ones I understand so it will not be to bad.
If you can’t abuse your friends then who can you abuse. ;)

I have been keeping notes from your posts.

you will need a private blockchain :D

If you can’t abuse your friends then who can you abuse. ;)

The only people worth abusing are friends as they are the ones who keep reality in check too :)

The one thing nice about steem is that there are times you are so far behind, then you are almost up to date with little effort . The system brings you along slowly.

Yes, makes sense.
I guess my dilemma is that this all seems to be focused on blogging, I'm not sure how it will play out in the other DApps and use cases that are built on Steem. We've been looking at fund raising and fund distribution (from individual and institutional donors) to charities. I've had to stop the work for the moment as the model is changing and I'm not sure what I'm introducing potential investors to, although the recent palnet tokenisation and launch may help with that. Having said that, abuse was (is) a problem and a risk, so having some plan to address that goes down much better with potential investors than shrugging my shoulders.

I guess my dilemma is that this all seems to be focused on blogging, I'm not sure how it will play out in the other DApps and use cases that are built on Steem.

No idea but I do think that in time there will be a much broader selection of pathways, including all of the traditional websites that are out there now.

Having said that, abuse was (is) a problem and a risk, so having some plan to address that goes down much better with potential investors than shrugging my shoulders.

Yep, it has to be considered for an investor coming in.

Not too shabby at all... and not too long ago. Getting back to being ripped/balanced is a few months within reach.

My issue now is more the belly area (bad diet). I am quite confident that on the lifting side I can get back pretty fast but unsure if I will ever push 300 pounds again on chest - bench is useless anyway so never really cared for it :D

I am hoping to get back into some more explosive activity, sprints and high box jumps.

You have the answer - simply address the diet and cut calories. No effort required if you're low on time and it'll save some money. Once a few pounds (or kilos) fall off, you may get fired up to continue the momentum to boost your metabolism more. There's no better time than now.

I have started adding in some "in between things" exercises to get back into the swing of it and have cut out most of the extra calories I was eating. Still a bit of a way to go, but will get there. You feeling good with your condition now?

You're on your way then. I thought you were a little more stuck, but you're moving forward. I'm about 1 month away from being in tip-top shape. Happy where I am, but I want to level up. I might start doing my daily fitness challenge on Steemit again. I did it for 165 consecutive days in the past before my Mom's accident and it was a nice community. It might be a good thing to do to give anyone who wants to partake a good kick in the ass every day to do a little more.

Eh there's been a few upheavals already and there's probably more coming. It'll work out fine or it won't and if it does yay and onto the next things to add/fix/whatever, if not then there's another thing to fix XD

I love that photo XD Babies and toddlers are the best workout tools/partners. Giggles and fun for everyone (just watch the baby drool when you're dangling them over your head XD)

if not then there's another thing to fix XD

add it to the list :)

Babies and toddlers are the best workout tools/partners. Giggles and fun for everyone (just watch the baby drool when you're dangling them over your head XD)

@smallsteps was doing some exercises with me when I tried exercising at home. She puts me to shame though :D

You got a 58.01% upvote from @ocdb courtesy of @tarazkp! :)

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