Of frontrunners and followers
I wonder what the difference is between a vote frontrunner and a legit follower? Do you know what I am talking about?
Let's take the bidbot angle out of this and look at the shining beacon of steem foretold in the Dead sea Scrolls as the highest and most esteemed of Steemians..... or something or other...
This dude has 30331 followers and gets upvoted around 250 dollars by himself and one other user. Here is a picture of the latest post (hard to keep up, there are 10 a day) with only the vote from the large whale. There are about 240 votes but, only the first 20 or so have any that register above a cent. Also, there are only 8 comments.
In fact, all of his posts are similar when it comes to engagement:
Considering he has 30,000+ followers and gets , that is a pretty low comment rate. It is reminiscent of this account which is one of Sweetsssj's family:
Although for some reason the frontrunners aren't following all of the 10 or so of them getting upvoted hundreds every week. Perhaps it is because they are upvoted after 4 days and the front runners are lazy and like the trending authors...
But, engagement is low even though the content actually isn't bad at times although, it seems to have dropped down a lot. When 200 dollar votes are guaranteed. Here is another one:
Do you see the problem here? At day 3 they have about 50 votes for 10-13 dollars but very low comments. This indicates a lot of autovotes or, frontrunners (the value comes from other family members?). On day 4, the whale vote arrives but engagement doesn't go up. What does this say about highly voted posts? .. well, unless they make it into trending (these don't) they aren't going to be seen anyway.
Another thing that is happening is there are services that follow the orders of the bidbots and frontrun them in an attempt to increase their curation return when the large votes arrive. This is essentially what is happening with Steem's highest reputation user also, people frontrunning the whale. Take away the whale and what is left when they realise the curation boost isn't coming? Well, you can see that without the whale and the self-vote, there is a few dollars at best. This is similar with the family, take away the large whale votes and there are a couple dollars remaining, maybe. Not exactly community supported value.
What about the trending posts boosted by the bidbots? How many are gaining real followers and how many are getting frontrunners? Does it matter? Well, not for the bidbot owners but perhaps the users who think they are getting real followers and support might be interested. Or not.
I don't know if there is a way to discern follower from frontrunner in the numbers but, what it means is that if a user stops bidding on their own content thinking they have now gained enough support, they are going to find that many are going to soon drop-off their voting as it isn't the content, it is the boosted curation return. The difference between engineered followers and organic is very large when it comes to long-term support.
Now, there are some people who use the bots on decent content and gain actual followers also and they are likely to be okay if they ever stop boosting themselves but, they will be surprised that the gap between is a lot wider than the numbers indicate as the frontrunners will drop away. I don't know what that gap will be but there will be one.
As far as I can tell from random observation over the months, for a lot of the followers are not actually following for the content at all which means, where is the promotional aspect? As for the content of the TA, who is interested in investing into Home Depot or Johnson Johnson's here? Get out of Fiat and into crypto? Hang on, they are fortune 500 companies aren't they?
This is just through my own basic observations and thinking but there are certain aspects that just don't seem to hold up. For advertising is one for the most part, as is for visibility because prior to the little view counter being taken away, many posts with hundreds of dollars had views in single digits. And just think, the poster's view counted every time they refreshed that page too.. I saw one that had 2 views and was 190 dollars.
This platform is a complicated beast but, the incentive to use it for the purpose intended as a social media site where content gets rewarded and engagement is valued, is the least incentivized part. Strange isn't it?
Who knows what the future holds with SMT's and hivemind for communities but currently, it is not looking healthy for content when these kinds of things are the norm. There are a lot of loopholes and scam potentials due to the complexity of the system and it seems that the concept of community has fallen through one of them. I wonder if it will ever be found. Where is the balance point between community and scam?
Well, at least it keeps the place interesting since the content hasn't been too mind blowing lately.
Taraz
[ a Steemit original ]
i really hope something changes but as long as the bidbots are allowed people will use them! Hell i've used them... but i didn't see any real profit and never spent enough to actually get my posts onto the trending pages! I actually enjoy browsing and rewarding good content just wish it was more! Guess i should power up huh...
Dunno, I have powered up a fair bit, reward a fair bit but, how much does it actually help people or the platform?
I’ll say personally for myself this platform has changed our lives for the better!! There have been a couple times I have paid my mortgage with these rewards and it has paid for several trips out of town for concerts and camping trips that otherwise we wouldn’t have been able to do! I love this place!!
Yes but, as more users come in, more delegate to bidbots, ore comes from the pool.. how many can ever have a chance to do similar? So far, I haven't used a dollar... I have given plenty of them though. What happens if I and others similar to me powerdown. How many organic curators are there?
I guess only time will tell! But I hope you stick around, we don’t plan on going anywhere!
Hi Taraz. Quite depressing reading when you start to think that this place was meant to be community based and people reading and interacting with each other. most of these accounts are propped up by one or two big votes. Take those away and they will all struggle. The content most of them are writing is boring and not even really original. They don't even put their own twist on it. If we took Haejin's whale away what would he be doing differently. Maybe he would have to read his replies and comment like the rest of us. Very short sited as the rules of engagement could change and they would be wealthy with what they have made already but that would be it. Their growth would come to a stand still. Your followers are more important than most think. Build your following and help them grow and you will grow bigger. It is a win win scenario. They are making hay while the sun shines but the rain will come. Sounds a bit like you know lol.
They are making so much hay and cashing out, they won't notice the rain as they will have rooves over their heads. It is the ones without that will feel the sting.
Funny, yesterday I made a post but before I was done made an inept blunder and pushed the "Post" key. I was about 1/3 finished with the post. Anyway I was completing the post but was unaware it was UP on my blog. People started commenting on the "great post", ect. But it wasn't even half finished! When I discovered the error I went to the comments and told each one of my error. They played along and said they thought it was a bit short. Maybe. Plausible story. But kind of discouraged me in that I'm trying to put up good material and only a handful are actually reading and appreciating. I'm not making much but have a group of auto voters that support me. Maybe half of them actually read the post. I've decided that for now I'm going to continue to write good stuff. It's a matter of integrity or self-respect i suppose, and I cant abide by the idea that I'm playing the game just for a buck.
But this circus you describe. I'm getting the message there are some Witnesses that are attempting to change things. I hope they succeed. Kind of like running a legit business out the front of the store and barely making it, while at the same time the guys in the warehouse are selling drugs out the back door and getting rich and laughing at you while doing it.
I have to tell you, if all things were equal, and a new platform opened up that had worked out these kind of problems I'd very seriously consider migrating. I do love Steemit. it's been great for me, but...this is ridiculous.
Brilliant analogy!
Not to be funny, or maybe in some manner to be funny, But with a real undertone,
What about the morality of doing such as you mention above (manipulation of the system at present) to gain a voice which would be heard? If you have Discord. I would like the opportunity to discuss such with you and possibly show you an example.
you can find me on discord or steem.chat with the same user name
The frontrunners of mine that I've been able to talk to are legit supporters who also like the curation rewards. But of course the ones I've been able to talk to are somewhat self-selected to be that way. I have a reasonable small pack now, which is interesting, and I hadn't really expected it.
What happens if you don't boost? and what happens if you don't boost for a month or two? I am guessing at first the autos will stay but they will eventually adjust.
As far as I can tell they all accept that I'm not boosting every post and are comfortable having me on autovote anyway.
If I stopped entirely I'm sure quite a few of them would leave, but probably a few would stay intentionally, and a few would stay because they weren't paying attention. I could maybe dig into what else they're voting on to predict that.
Your observation and research concerning steemit was right, a lot of things is happening on this platform that isn't clear. When I first joined steemit I asked the same questions when I see a post with over $1000 with not much activities
I was told they are called scam, I really do thing can such things happened for real but that is just the order of the day as far as steemit is concerned. The people that are honest about what they post and how to get upvote aren't much on this platform, actually that is life we are in now, fewer claim the sweat of other through their fraudulent mean. Let's hope for better future and keep doing what we know to be the best. Thanks for sharing such an informative piece here.
Thank you for the beautiful work you are doing. You write out my thoughts.... Smile
Their are many factors responsible for everything people are doing on this platform like you rightly said.
People don't read the content again, what they are after is the reward, some people only upvote post without reading the contents whether it worth the upvote or not just to get the curation reward which is not encouraging enough, the quality posts are unnoticed and unrewarded because they don't belong to their grounp. This is dangerous for the future of steemit as new users are finding it so difficult to break into the cycle and are living the community as a result
Life is not too comfortable for the new users, somebody like me has to use the bot once in a while to ensure the hours I spent on writing posts does not go in vain. It is tiring to see those efforts go unrewarded. I try as much as I can to put in my very best in writing quality posts, but it seems everything on steemit is about who know who? Smile
Though, this has not stopped me from trying to build relationships as well. I read as many as possible articles per day, the number of comments I make per day is a testament to that. I leave quality comments to show that I read the posts line by line, but it has not been yielding results, but I'm sure it will one of this days.
I'm sure, this is one of the reasons many people turn to bot too, though their are some others as well that turn to bot just to keep appearing on the trending.
But, no matter the intention, we should all work towards the healthy community for that is where the future of steemit lies...
I believe in steemit
You have been here 2 months? there were ties before bots that was the norm and a big payout was in the single digits.
It is called a social media after all, people and relationships should be involved.
Sure?
Lol, I actually joined steemit since December 2017 with the account name @emmakwisequote, I lost password into that account as a result of my damaged phone in February 2018 before I reconnected in March 2018...
I'm 2 months old on the platform, yes.
I'm six months old on the platform is yes too.... Smile
That period remained my darkest time on steemit, I had to do extra to move at this pace...
Thanks for checking on my wall... Smile
the darkest time was likely january to april 2017 when steem was 6 -15 cents. It was the best tie to buy though.
That's is the general darkest time joined with my personal darkest making it to be raised to power 2 for me... Lol
The price sent many people packing, even those that are already making waves... But I have come to stay.
On investment, I'm working on that, though things has not been happening has planned, that's another reason why I turned to bot at time, I'm after the sp and not the money for now, if I grow power, money will come.... Smile
I've been on Steemit for only a couple of days now, so I'm really new here. One thing that attracted me to Steemit was that I would not have to see ads everywhere. The way things are now, bid bots are a way the same ads I had hoped to avoid could infect the platform. Also, if you watch some Youtube videos about Steemit, there are many people who see it as nothing more than a way for them to make money, which I think is sad.
If you don't look at Trending you'll never see a bidbot post pushed ahead of anything else. Develop your feed to relate to your interests and you can have a solid experience here without ever seeing any of this.
Fair point. Thank you for that. I never considered that option.
Never watched one but that is why many people come here. That is all they are ever here for and if it doesn't happen, they leave and people say engagement is bad. It is bad, but not because of them.
It would be really awesome to see more support for those who are bringing real value to the Steemit community. For a post to have 190 dollars and only have 2 votes only shows that that content potentially isn't as valuable as a lot of the content that goes unnoticed. I still have faith that in time things will change for the better, that we will find a way of making this work the way it was meant to. There is a solution somewhere out there.
2 views.
Is there a way to search for posts which have a high views-to-votes ratio?
well, the view counter was broken and gamable as it would click over on ever refresh. That is why 2 is very low..considering I viewed it as well. Don't think there is a way to search them that way though.
Sometimes I wish I was a programmer.
Oh, yeah, I meant 2 views. I guess you could say it was a slip of... erm... the finger :-)
There’s a reason for that. This way, when off the trending chart or several scrolls down the trending chart, the sold upvote is less obvious.
Didn’t some of the bidbots use to offer frontrun services?